Tool Theft Issues

[Dave_C]

I thought maybe we could discuss more about this issue with a dedicated thread:

Thieves are opportunistic for the for the most part. Some steal out of necessity because they won't work or have a drug habit. (The cause of that would take up the whole forum if we went there, so I won't)

Having worked for Johnson Controls for the last 20 years of my career I got to learn a lot from our guys who did the card access and security stuff. We did airports, court houses, schools and about anything that needed security.

Kids learn real quick that if they wear a hooded sweat shirt it makes face identification almost impossible from video cameras mounted anywhere above head level. So we came up with some chest level cameras hidden behind smoked glass and that helped a bunch.

For me, I have "Fake" camera domes that look real. They even have a red LED so they look "activated" when the person discovers them. They cost about $5.00 each! Then post some signs saying "HD recorded Video in use" and the thought of getting caught helps prevent the theft. Signs are cheap and even if you don't have cameras, they will think they can't find them.

I also use Game cameras that actually record! I caught a bunch of kids who were ringing door bells in the wee hours of the morning. Then I emailed their pictures to the neighborhood and guess what, they got busted!

And I have a security system but I don't put much store in it as thieves know it takes 10 -15 minutes for the county to arrive on site. Usually more! We get lots of door knockers during the day saying they are selling this or that but no car in sight. What they are really doing is seeing who is home during the day and who is not.

I will say this. They will not be happy if they break in while I'm here! Missouri has the Castle doctrine law and if they are on your property, well enough said!

Dave C.

[SteveM]

Whenever I am going to be gone for any length of time, I photograph the entire shop. Machines, toolboxes (drawer by drawer).

I take the pics with my phone so that I know the pics are on me and not in the house.

I figure if I ever need to tell the insurance company what I have, they would never believe me.

Steve

[steamin10]

I'll chime in here, and say I have a game camera, that is used often at the rear of the property. It has infrared, so it catches possum, raccoons and two footed trespassers that dare to cross my fences. When spotted, a load of buckshot into the trees are clearly understood. I am NOT a favorite of the county constabulary, as they have referred to me in definite negative terms. My 72 yrs old neighbor found his 6 foot cyclone fence cut, half way up our property line. He has more things (junk?) stored than I do. At the cut, he recovered a cell phone, charged it, and received a call. It was a 20 something asking for his phone back. (REALLY!) It was turned over to the county, and that wound up with he and a partner getting 12+6 months for criminal trespass, and destruction of property (the fence). Due to threatening letters, the family moved, as we have a militant group that watches for the old and crippled. (Me too.).

There is law, and street law. Street law tends to be rather unlawful, but effective in that it appears gangster for its motions. Law sometimes puts the complaint under question, with idiotic wisdom of "dont you have locks?" ( I believe that locks are for idiots, and a safe marks the spot with 'dig here'. )

So I have two energetic dogs , that bark at every leaf rustle, after having Great Danes for house dogs for more than 25 yrs. It takes some gumption to go face to face with a Dane through a window. But noise is an enemy to stealth, barking dogs, a give away. I have some phoney camera's and flashlite lenses, motion lights, and things, just to keep the unknowing guessing. I have contemplated setting up a computer with a few cameras to record on a large backup drive, but prevention is the best, rather than a post mortum on a BI incident. I have lost tools to co-workers, thieves, and otherwise bad people. I do my best to be fair, but occasionally , I get even, and it is not pretty. The payback is usually safe, as they count is as from someone they know. So I retain my secrecy, and sanity, an replace missing or needed tools from pawns and yard sales. It is too easy for me to move ahead, rather than get locked into bitter battles over things. I have several issues coming to bear on this, and there may be more to post this fall. Sherlock Holmes would be proud.

Mark your stuff, with a clear relevant mark, or a micro stamp. Give such information to your insurance when you do it, so the record beats any loss. If your police department has periodic sales of contraband, go look. You may see something a neighbor lost, or find a good deal on another item. Make rubbings of serial numbers, record production numbers, any ID that is pertanent. YA, its a PITA, but without relative proof of ownership, you wont get far in a recovery.

[Steve_in_Mich]

Some steal out of necessity because they won't work or have a drug habit.
Dave C.

"out of necessity" for drugs and/or lazyness

We must have a different definition for necessity.

[SteveHGraham]

I just put a burglar alarm in a rental house. I learned a lot about the current crop of systems. They hook up to the Internet, and you can see the criminals on video in real time. They send alerts to your phone. I feel certain that a person willing to Google can come up with a way to create the same type of system without hiring a company and paying a fortune. A laptop plus a few cameras and sensors.

[juiceclone]

You can get a security DVR and four cameras on eBeast for a bit over a hundred bucks. Yes they work, have motion detect/record "fence" setup and you can see them on your smartphone/pad wherever you are. Put up the cam put up the signs in all appropriate languages and things will change ....around your house at least. We have the only street in this (not good) area where the deals and dealers have moved on. You give the sheriff a dvd now and then with the miscreants carrying on and the word gets around.
Keep your powder dry nonetheless.!!

[BadDog]

Seems like almost every day now I see video from "home surveillance" rigs. Local neighborhood newsletter last weekend included a video from one of our neighbors showing a late night theft. Daughter was visiting, no room in garage, left the car outside over night. Around 2 a.m. some worthless trash kids (certainly with even more useless parents) are seen roaming the streets. They walk up to the car, check and find the door unlocked, so for the next minute or so they are all in and around the car, pop the trunk, and make off with everything they can find. IR images, relatively well lit with the car dome light on, many clear shots at faces. Asking if anyone can help identify the trash involved. Good luck...

I could say definitively that there were 3 bipedal humans involved. They were not very dark skinned. Dark or light shirts/pants. Approximate height between maybe 5' and 6'6" or so. Rough hair in the range of "darkish, medium shoulder length". But that's about it. One even had a light shirt with some sort of graphic, couldn't begin to tell you what it was. MAYBE someone will see something distinguishing, but it could almost be anyone, and if they don't admit it, you'll never know. Basically a waste of money and time for the home owner.

I saw another on the news. This was video from a BANK robbery. Again, you couldn't make out much at all. I know they make cameras that can take decent video like that, I've seen it. But it's not the $300 kits with 4 cameras and recorder you see around all the time. And even the bank that you would expect to have decent video equipment was pathetic. At least 9 out of 10 of the videos I see with "help us find this person" are unbelievably bad. It does work, you can see someone doing things and make out what they are doing, but if they don't have a VERY distinctive characteristic caught by the system you still don't know anything. I wouldn't waste my time installing the thing if it was free.

[redneckalbertan]

Just a word of caution if anyone is thinking about setting up video survalence. If you are planning on using a smart hub like this one to provide the Internet access: http://www.comparecellular.ca/mobile-in ... smart-hub/ talk to you cellular provider to find out if it is possible.

I set up a shop about 2 years ago and wanted video survalenace in it and the ability to remotely moniter it. There was no cable or telephone lines to the shop so I figuered I'd use a smart hub to provide phone and Internet access in the shop. I found out the hard way that with the cellular providers I was using that a person can not connect to a device on their system remotely. I could not connect to a VPN on the computer in the shop and connecting to the survalence system from a cell phone would not work. (Had no trouble with the security system if it was on a conventional cable internet service.) I tried using the find me follow me websites and they would not help with the port forwarding. I had no trouble connecting a computer attached to the smart hub to an outside VPN but could not go the other way. For an extra $30 per month I was told that the cellular service company would assign me, as the out it, something similar to a static IP address which might work, but they would not allow me to try before I bought and could not guarantee it would work. $30/month was too much to pay in my mind and went without the ability to remotely moniter the site. It would still send out the pictures to my cell phone if I had bothered to set that up.

[BadDog]

I just watched the news. Some convenience store (I think?) parking lot down south. Seemed like pretty decent video really. You can see cars drive by, making out the general shapes and gray scale color. Then a man grabs a woman at the edge of the screen, beats her, and of all things drags her over to the store right front and center of the concealed camera. You could not have positioned the camera better. A few minutes of video, multiple times he looks right at the camera as he begins to rape the woman before some random people happen by and he runs off. Public appeal to "call our hot line if you know anything". I couldn't tell you even the race of either victim or rapist, or victim, or the 2 guys who walked up. Scum bag may have looked vaguely Hispanic, but I wouldn't swear to that. Again, medium build, medium hair cut, maybe a dark color, light shirt, dark pants. Anyone seen him out there?

I guess if they get a suspect that generally matches the description, maybe with a motive, you can at least prove that a person meeting the general description absolutely did commit a specific crime there. So no "he said she said", which certainly has value, but that's about all I can see out of it. Or maybe if you are having trouble with your distinctive (perhaps pear shaped, big bald head, something) neighbor you can see if he took a dump in your geraniums or something. But if you can't afford to get decent video equipment with good resolution and low light performance, you might as well just stick up the signs and mount some fake cameras for all the good it will do. I suppose if you have remote access it could also be used, if you got lucky timing, to see something happening and call the cops (or someone more likely to arrive quickly and deal with it).

[juiceclone]

Agree with the observations above. The most important thing in a residential environment is to see to it that all likely involved KNOW that there is electronic recording onsite. (signs) And having as many cameras as possible, real or not, making it obvious that they WILL be seen. You won't reform them, but you can move them on down the road.

[SteveHGraham]

Human beings are worse than monkeys, because we know what we do is wrong. I'm always amazed to hear people say that human beings are basically good. It shows that people believe what they want to believe, not what they see.

I bought my first Glock because my own sister, a drug addict, told me she was going to send her dopehead friends after me for pressuring her into rehab. Luckily for them, she forgot all about it.

I carry a 10mm with 1250 fps hollow points everywhere I go, and I keep a loaded semiautomatic rifle with a laser next to the bed. I agree that signs are a good idea. I would much rather scare someone off with a sign than shoot him multiple times and get crucified by an unethical prosecutor who lets the media give him orders.

Not that anything like that has ever happened here in Florida.

[Dave_C]

You all make some very good points about the"poor" video quality. With the invent of HD cameras you can get some great detail but you won't get it for $400 dollars. $4,000 maybe!

Then the media hurts us even worse because they show the poor video on TV so the thieves can see how hard it is to identify them. Banks don't help because they don't always spend the bucks to upgrade their 320x400 cameras from years ago to some decent 720P or 1080I cameras. Some have and the footage is awesome!

We sold cameras and recording units that could be zoomed digitally to look at detail. You can read a license plate from 50 feet away, no problem but then they cost big bucks. Not something you and I would pay for for home use.

Preventing the crime is still the best way I think. Make em think they are being watched or will be caught. Most thieves are really lazy cowards looking for the easiest theft, not the hard ones!

Dave C.