Backing up computer files

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Mr Ron
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Backing up computer files

Post by Mr Ron »

This is a warning to save all your computer data periodically on an external hard drive, CD or flash drive. I do all my train drawings using Autocad. I had a lot of drawings I made over the years stored on my XP computer. I didn't have it backed up and now my computer crashed. The computer service tech said the data was unrecoverable, so all my valuable drawings are lost along with a lot more valuable files. From now on I will backup data on external storage devices. For those who are computer challenged like me, I have been dealing with "Best Buy, Geek Squad" for all my computer issues. They have been fantastic to deal with. I bought a service plan 3 weeks ago and it has paid for itself in fixing all my computer issues.
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi
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liveaboard
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Re: Backing up computer files

Post by liveaboard »

Take out the hard drive and put it into an external box with USB connection; then connect it to a working PC.
You can download data recovery software. I've used it successfully.
But of course, if the HD is physically broken, your sunk.
Russ Hanscom
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Re: Backing up computer files

Post by Russ Hanscom »

personally I dislike the Geeks, their typical solution is to reformat the drive and to heck with the data.

We back up to an external backup drive and I also backup to a micro SD card which I keep elsewhere.
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Backing up computer files

Post by SteveHGraham »

You don't need to clutter your desk with an external drive. Most PC's will let you install extra internal drives.

You can also use cloud storage, if you trust Uncle Sam. Don't we all?
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Russ Hanscom
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Re: Backing up computer files

Post by Russ Hanscom »

I am not worried about desk clutter, I am worried about fire, theft,... Keeping a copy somewhere else is good insurance; and not where anyone can get to it.
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Steggy
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Re: Backing up computer files

Post by Steggy »

SteveHGraham wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:18 pmYou don't need to clutter your desk with an external drive. Most PC's will let you install extra internal drives.
Sorry, but that is bad advice.

Using a second installed disk totally defeats the point of making backups: redundancy. If operating system failure or user stupidity damages both disks, you have no means of recovery. If the building catches fire and takes your computer with it, so goes your backup. The only truly secure backup is one that is on external media that is resistant to damage (which, incidentally, rules out your typical, consumer-grade, external USB-connected hard disk) and can be removed from the building or stored in a UL-listed media safe.

In my business, backups are generated each day to high-capacity magnetic tape, with a separate tape used for each day of the week. My main business server (file and print services, E-mail, etc.) has two such sets of tapes, producing a 13-day recovery window. My software development server has one such set of tapes, but is also backed up to the file and print server at one week intervals. Furthermore, my workstations are imaged each day to the file-and-print server, again providing the same 13-day recovery window.

I've worked professionally with computers since 1970, have run my own computer business since the 1980s, and to this day, DO NOT TRUST COMPUTERS! A computer is a machine designed by fallible human beings and is hence itself fallible. Furthermore, it is controlled by software that is designed by fallible human beings, introducing yet more potential points of failure. The most widely used operating system, Microsoft Windows, has more bugs in it than the rooms in a rent-by-the-hour motel. It is never a question of "Could it fail?", only one of "When will it fail?" When a failure occurs (and in this context, a "failure" is also malware infiltration, something that is almost uniquely endemic to MS Windows), disk-resident files are often corrupted and if you're having a really bad day, the filesystem itself is corrupted, leading, at best, to damaged files, and at worst, complete loss of all data (have seen it happen all-too-many times).

Your only protection against system contretemps is the availability of viable and current backups, as well as a way to restore them following hard drive failure, a so-called "bare metal" restoration. I have hammered this advice into my clients' heads for so many years, and yet I will still occasionally get frantic calls from one who found it too time-consuming or too-inconvenient to generate backups and is now at loggerheads because some sort of system failure took out his data. All-too-often, I can't help them. Of course, I can replace the failed disk, but without a viable backup, all they will have is a new disk with an operating system installed, but no data with which to get work done.

Incidentally, all hard drives eventually fail. Server-grade disks have a manufacturer-rated lifetime of five years, assuming 24/7 operation—ironically, continuous around-the-clock operation generally leads to longer service life. In practice, server-grade disks last as much as eight years if run continuously and adequately cooled. PC-grade disks are not nearly as robust and I generally consider any PC drive more than four years old to have one foot in the grave. That many PCs are configured to spin-down the disk(s) after periods of inactivity shortens the life of the disk due to the relatively frequent stop/start cycles.
You can also use cloud storage, if you trust Uncle Sam. Don't we all?
Absolutely not recommended! There are so many things wrong with that concept it would take me another hour of typing to explain why "cloud" storage in general is a really bad idea (security of data being but one of the many issues). As a backup medium, it totally sucks.
Last edited by Steggy on Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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John Hasler
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Re: Backing up computer files

Post by John Hasler »

Uncle Sam is the least of your worries if you use "cloud storage". Besides, you're already trusting Microsoft or Apple (and probably Google and Facebook as well).
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Steggy
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Re: Backing up computer files

Post by Steggy »

John Hasler wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:55 pmUncle Sam is the least of your worries if you use "cloud storage". Besides, you're already trusting Microsoft or Apple (and probably Google and Facebook as well).
Amen, brother! I won't even mention what happens when you are working "on the cloud" and Internet service goes kaput. No internet service, no file access, no work getting done. Two of my clients have been stung by this, leading both to go back to locally hosting their data and backups. I won't even mention the performance issues... ☻

Mr. Panda, while working on a presentation stored "on the cloud," has his Internet service go belly-up
Mr. Panda, while working on a presentation stored "on the cloud," has his Internet service go belly-up
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RMinMN
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Re: Backing up computer files

Post by RMinMN »

Mr Ron wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:14 pm This is a warning to save all your computer data periodically on an external hard drive, CD or flash drive. I do all my train drawings using Autocad. I had a lot of drawings I made over the years stored on my XP computer. I didn't have it backed up and now my computer crashed. The computer service tech said the data was unrecoverable, so all my valuable drawings are lost along with a lot more valuable files. From now on I will backup data on external storage devices. For those who are computer challenged like me, I have been dealing with "Best Buy, Geek Squad" for all my computer issues. They have been fantastic to deal with. I bought a service plan 3 weeks ago and it has paid for itself in fixing all my computer issues.
The computer service may not have gone to great lengths to try to recover your files. One trick that I have heard works sometimes is to put the hard drive into the freezer overnight, then reinstall it while still cold. That may let you get it to start and copy your files off. Note: this is a one shot thing. You can't do it twice. Be sure you have things set up to do the transfer as when the drive gets warm you are done.
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SteveHGraham
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Re: Backing up computer files

Post by SteveHGraham »

Sorry, but that is bad advice.
This is a good example of going outside the parameters of a discussion.

It's fine advice for a person like Mr. Ron, who is anticipating, and willing to guard against, an ordinary disk crash, not a fire or theft. We are comparing external to internal--two poor solutions--not external to a top-notch scheme involving a remote location. As we all know, people who use external drives generally leave them on their desks, where fire or theft will get them simultaneously with the internals, so in their situations, internal drives are superior to external simply because they get junk out of the way. If you're actually industrious enough to take your external drive with you EVERY TIME YOU LEAVE THE BUILDING, and carry it to another location which is NOT ON THE SAME PROPERTY, then an external drive is better than an internal drive. Who carries a hard drive around all day? I've never known anyone who did.

Mr. Ron's external drive won't be any better than an internal drive unless it travels with him. My suggestion won't give him great protection, but neither will the external drive, and it will be in the way.

As for the cloud, everyone who uses Fusion 360 has to use it, and it's working well enough to keep subscribers subscribed. I don't like it, but then I don't like paying thousands of dollars for CAD software. Attorneys all over the US use cloud services now. The whole cloud notion is a scary step toward totalitarianism, but it's fine for storing train drawings and cat memes.

If your data is so important it would be catastrophic to lose it, then you should put serious effort into real protection. That's not what we're talking about.

This kind of reminds me of gun safe discussions. You have to spend at least $6000 to get a safe an angle grinder won't open in 5 minutes, and Internet commenters make so many negative comments about affordable safes, they discourage people from buying anything. In reality, a Costco safe you can open with a can opener is WAY better than nothing. An external drive you leave on your desk is a Costco safe, and an internal drive is a Costco safe in a more convenient location.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
earlgo
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Re: Backing up computer files

Post by earlgo »

Mr. Ron, I am sorry that you lost all your data. That is devastating to a hobbyist.
Before the copy of SW I used timed out, I made hard copies of all the drawings, and electronic copies on a thumb drive of all the files and put them in a notebook. I also made a copy of the SW Viewer software and put that in the notebook, too. It will read the files but not allow any changes. All the drawings are also in .PDF format for future printing. AND I make monthly backups of other important files on an external WD drive. Other than that, I haven't done a thing including not buying a new version of SW for $4000 that does not include the yearly update fee of near $200.
Oh, and now I am getting familiar with the cloud version of SolidWorks that is called OnShape. It allows things to be printed in .PDF format for local saving. (Probably just like Fusion360.)
Computers are fun but frustrating.
--earlgo
P.S. The folks who clean out the house after I have gone to the great machine shop in the sky will no doubt sail the notebook into the dumpster.
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.
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tornitore45
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Re: Backing up computer files

Post by tornitore45 »

I use a program I must have payed $15 "Allway Sync 'n' Go". Once set up it will backup intelligently by comparing the destination media to the source media and make them equal retaining the latest file. 2 minutes as often as I feel there is sufficient new data.
After is done I remove the Zip drive thinking that if the PC is hijacked for ransom they can not get to the back up.
I only back up my data, not the entire operating system and programs I can reinstall.
I also have a shared folder on line with my son. Of course is vulnerable to breach but so is the PC on my desk. It is a mere convenience.

Even with a back up it took days to get the new PC to the way I like it after a crash. Reinstalling software, configuring preferences and restoring the data.
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX
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