Tool Abuse

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Harold_V
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Re: Tool Abuse

Post by Harold_V » Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:19 am

10KPete wrote:It's just a shame to see good machines left to rot like that. I could have been easily saved.

Pete
That's the harsh reality. Unfortunately, the market for such machines is pretty much non-existent, yet the home shop types often would readily buy it. Industry has no need for them, no more than it does for shapers. They have, for the most part, been replaced by CNC equipment.

I've always coveted a nice K&T horizontal, but reality dictates that it most likely wouldn't be a great choice for the home shop. Much the same as a centerless grinder. Cutters for horizontal mills tend to be very expensive, and are beyond the typical home shop's ability to sharpen.

However, if you've ever seen one of these beasts operate, the amount of metal they can move is horrifying. They're a great value when used for production.

I didn't mean to go on and on about rusted machines, but some folks here, as well as elsewhere, struggle when trying to accomplish close work, when a great deal of their trouble is related to their inability to measure correctly, as well as trying to coax acceptable performance from a machine that simply isn't capable. That's a sure recipe for discouragement, so I try to cast a little light on the subject, like suggesting that calipers (of any stripe) are not well suited to precision work. Some don't like the message, but the day of reckoning comes to them sooner or later.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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10KPete
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Location: Nordland, WA, USA

Re: Tool Abuse

Post by 10KPete » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:14 am

It's like trying to tell people about 'backlash' in a machine! Do you remember the 'Bull of the Woods' cartoons? One I will always
remember is an old hand standing in front of a big 'ol lathe, that has shims sticking out all over, and he's holding a mallet.
He's showing the new guy about the machine. The Bull is off to one side talking to the Super saying something like "It'll take
the new guy forever to learn that machine, old Ernie's been swingin' that mallet for 25 years now."

That's a bit extreme but close to reality with manual machines. Like the cross slide on a lathe. Ya always read the dial when
you're tuning it 'in', pushing the slide into the work when turning and the opposite when boring. Slack? Who cares????

But lots of folks are just starting out, in their home shop, with no one to show 'em the ropes. So ya just try to explain but
sometimes (usually?) you're drowned out by the inexperienced. They only know what they've read on the 'net or seen in
books or utube the last few weeks. There's nothing like having an old hand at your elbow. I did and consider myself fortunate
for it. You did too from the sound of it. Anyway.....

Pete
Just tryin'

RONALD
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Re: Tool Abuse

Post by RONALD » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:03 am

Here is what the machine looked like as new.

These were copied from Catalog 142 "MACHINERY and TOOLS" issued by Brown & Sharpe in 1941.

The mill is about 74 years old, lotsa guys on this board are that age, and may show the same kinda surface "Rust"; underneath may be a different story.

Here is a 1950's #2 that I rebuilt, of course it was not as rusted, and I took care of positioning errors by adding a DRO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-sfBZWdyPA
Attachments
Number 2 1941001.jpg
Number 2 1941002.jpg

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10KPete
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Re: Tool Abuse

Post by 10KPete » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:58 am

Those old machines had enough 'stout' to really rip off the chips. Mighty impressive.

Pete
Just tryin'

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Tool Abuse

Post by SteveHGraham » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:53 am

What I really hate is seeing the government ruin machines, not just through inadvertence, but as a matter of practice. Because, hey, they don't have to work for the money to replace them!

People who have made food stamps and welfare a lifestyle should have to go out and oil the machinery Uncle Sam leaves in the rain.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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10KPete
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Re: Tool Abuse

Post by 10KPete » Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:01 pm

SteveHGraham wrote:What I really hate is seeing the government ruin machines, not just through inadvertence, but as a matter of practice. Because, hey, they don't have to work for the money to replace them!

People who have made food stamps and welfare a lifestyle should have to go out and oil the machinery Uncle Sam leaves in the rain.
Gets my vote!

Pete
Just tryin'

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GlennW
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Re: Tool Abuse

Post by GlennW » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:30 pm

Never happen.

They've been trained to do nothing more than to walk to the mail box.
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!

Harold_V
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Re: Tool Abuse

Post by Harold_V » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:38 pm

10KPete wrote:But lots of folks are just starting out, in their home shop, with no one to show 'em the ropes. So ya just try to explain but
sometimes (usually?) you're drowned out by the inexperienced. They only know what they've read on the 'net or seen in
books or utube the last few weeks. There's nothing like having an old hand at your elbow. I did and consider myself fortunate
for it. You did too from the sound of it. Anyway.....

Pete
Indeed I did! Those who are accomplished rarely achieve that goal without standing on the shoulders of those who went before us. And in some cases, like learning to properly sharpen cutters, without a mentor, you may never achieve the goal, as very little is published in that regard.

I was fortunate to have been trained by seasoned journeymen, most of whom hoped to see those they trained to be better than they were. Contrary to that concept, one openly suggested that he wasn't about to disclose "everything he knew", as he rationale was that if his trainees knew everything he knew, they'd soon have his job. Needless to say, he was a miserable machinist, as well as a miserable instructor. It's hard to have respect for a guy who uses a Deltronic pin to lap a hole.

Where and how one is trained is often fully responsible for one's attitude towards machine performance. If a guy turns manhole covers for a living, where size isn't critical, he isn't likely to be concerned about a machine's ability. However, give a guy a job with a couple tenths tolerance, it takes but seconds to realize that the machine is everything--that no amount of skill will permit dealing with two tenths when the spindle reports greater error.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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10KPete
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Re: Tool Abuse

Post by 10KPete » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:23 pm

Which is why I'm rebuilding my BenchMaster. It wouldn't hold the tolerances needed for me to build an engine. It was fine
for plowing around on boat and tractor parts but doing a scale engine would have been a real hit and miss proposition.
Pun intended!!

Take care,
Pete
Just tryin'

Harold_V
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
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Re: Tool Abuse

Post by Harold_V » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:19 pm

10KPete wrote: a real hit and miss proposition.
:lol: :lol:

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Tool Abuse

Post by SteveHGraham » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:43 am

GlennW wrote:Never happen.

They've been trained to do nothing more than to walk to the mail box.
I believe they use direct deposit and electronic cards now. Surely you don't want people to have to get off the couch and walk.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Tool Abuse

Post by SteveHGraham » Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:46 am

Hopefully a time will come when the government can hook up a system that injects a paste of Cheez Doodles, THC, and cheap wine directly into people's veins.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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