"One must remember.
The best learning experiences come
from working with the older Masters.
Yes Ken, there is a lot of membership knowledge here and it's great.
Your favourite quote above is probably very true indeed, but the dilemma for a lot of people is that there are a lot of older people who are not masters, and it sometimes requires time to work out the difference between those who are the masters and those who are not, especially on a forum!!
That's a common problem, often fueled by those who fancy themselves the equal of those who have pursued a given avocation for a lifetime. We see examples of that often, with some folks willing to argue about topics in which they are not well versed. No amount of explanation will have them understand that they are missing some important elements, thus they aren't able to grasp the errors of their ways.
Concerning the masters, it is generally true that, given enough time, they manage to betray themselves, exposing the fact that they aren't "masters", after all.
Harold's quote ( which seems to have disappeared now)
A fast check of the log doesn't indicate any edits to my posts. However, from your comment, I got the idea that it was my sig line to which you were making reference. "Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something
It should still appear in my posts.
Assuming it was my sig line to which you were making reference, continuing with your comment:
was also very true - to me, it basically meant don't talk unless you can prove what you are saying is true and that is of course good, but does tend to stifle opinion and opinion is what keeps the world going round.
There's a fine line that separates opinion from fact. All opinions are welcome on this board, so long as they are posted politely, and without personal attacks, and are NOT presented as fact. That one chooses to believe something does not make it true.
If it is a bad opinion, then someone who knows more will quickly haul you up, sort you out and make you eat humble pie! - I accept that.
It is for that reason that we permit opinions. We simply must be careful to not allow opinions to be stated as fact, as some folks rely on this board, just as they do most any venue, as a source of information. I, in particular, try to prevent misinformation, and will often post when something controversial is offered. The topic of perpetual motion is a good example. We can all dream of such a thing--but the harsh reality is it isn't going to happen, not now, not tomorrow, not with things as we know them. You simply can not take more out of anything than has been put in. A given amount of energy is required to put a body in motion. Friction (both mechanical and eletrical) will absorb some of that energy, so the body has no alternative but to slow down, eventually coming to a stop, as the energy infused in the object will eventually have been totally absorbed by friction. It may take a week, or it may take seven years, but it is sure to happen, like it or not.
Now then, of what use would any device be if all it did was continue to move? The only logical way we can capitalize on such a device would be to harness energy---energy that has the potential to be lower than the energy introduced at the outset. What have we gained?
I do also accept that I can learn a lot from this forum and that there can be much better ideas for a solution to some specific problem than mine - if anyone has a sincere and honest opinion, then spit it out (in a nice manner) - but make it stick or you're mincemeat - that way we all learn!
Agreed. And, when an individual wishes to post something they hold dear, something that may appear to be illogical to those who think, it's not a bad idea to make mention that it is a belief they hold, that is is not, indeed, fact.
I think there is a bit of grey area between the two types of people you talked about in your quote, (maybe I come from somewhere in that area?).
It seems that you have quite a lot of experience in practical engineering - I have quite a lot of skills from the past in this too, but I do feel you have a lot more than I have in the home workshop scene.
In regards to my statement about types of people, it's really quite simple. I'm a very practical person, not driven by hare brained ideas. I have no formal education. I am a person of science, as it is the closest thing to reality that we have, like it or not. Science explains why things are as they are--we simply must be able to accept the facts as they have been presented, typically from folks who have no axe to grind, but are seeking truth. If a scientist has no dog in the fight, but draws conclusions from years of research, I am far more inclined to believe what he/she has to offer than the ravings of some irrational person.
In regards to the home shop, while I have one, I am not just a hobbyist. I spent 26 years running the machines for gain, 16 of them piloting my own commercial shop. That often unsettles some folks, as I tend to look at things from the perspective of a commercial machinist, not a hobbyist, and occasionally gather my share of flack as a result. My methods are often at odds with those of others, but I have to rely on what I learned, and what worked best under demanding conditions. I am NOT a fan of the old saw that there's many ways to skin a cat. There is generally one way that is superior to all the others, but some folks won't have their ways taken from them, not for any reason. They'll stick by decisions they've made, even if they tend to be troublesome. That's a lesson that has been slow for me to learn. Such folks often do not seek advice, but approval instead. They don't welcome advice, and see it as being antagonistic.
I'm not quite settled into my home workshop yet, but already, I find that it's not just the same when I have to actually cough up the cash for everything!
All too true! It generally takes years for a person to equip a shop to one's satisfaction. Don't know that you're ever really there, either. For example, I'd like to own a centerless grinder. I expect there's not one in my future, but I'd certainly like to have one sitting in the shop!
Anyway this is a good forum and thanks for the good communication from all you guys.
We're fortunate to have a good gathering of people on this board, which is directed by a person who prefers that all have a voice, but that we remain polite. I heartily endorse his method of operation, and try to reflect that in my approach to the board.
It's nice to have you here, Will. I thank you for your candor.
Happy New Year,
And to you as well!