Utilizing capablities

This forum is dedicated to those hobbyists with the 3-in-1 metalworking machines. Mill-Drill-Lathes. Tips, techniques, modification and use of these machines is topical.

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spro
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Utilizing capablities

Post by spro » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:37 pm

The first machine similar to a 3-in-1 that I saw was an Emco Maximat V 10(P?). The idea made sense then and it does now. I had already gone through the frustration of turning a part and then having to relocate on another machine for indexed drilling or milled slots. We don't read about that advantage here. It is mostly alignment, quality issues.
Somebody has positive experiences with indexed milling or low rpm rotary milling, upon the turned work, they can share.

pete
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Re: Utilizing capablities

Post by pete » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:41 pm

Hi Spro,
An even better set up? It does require a method of accurate head stock dividing, but Google for Quick Step Milling Head, or you can check it out on the Hemingway Kits web site in the U.K. to see what it's capable of. Basically a 9 speed milling head for use on the top or cross slide of a manual lathe. Live tooling for almost any lathe from about 8" swing on up. Not exactly cheap though.

Almost bought an Emco Super 11 lathe with the rear mounted mill in 1989 but bought a new IROC instead. :cry: Wish now I'd bought the lathe/mill.

spro
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Re: Utilizing capablities

Post by spro » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:29 am

I looked at those items and thanks for that. I suppose the closest idea was the indexer which is attached to the left end of the lathe spindle. I don't own a 3-in-1 but there must be a plate or gear which can be simply indexed and locked for the mill head.

pete
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Re: Utilizing capablities

Post by pete » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:27 am

There's more than a few designs around to fit the Myford Super 7 lathe Spro. What they generally do is use a temporary mount with a worm that engages the bull gear. Since it's pretty light duty work then the worm will still work fine on a spur type gear like those bull gears. George H.Thomas came up with an excellent design that uses a worm and a proper set of division plates. That Quick Step milling head was meant to be used on lathes from about that Myford size and larger. If some type of accurate dividing can be cobbled up for any lathe then that live tooling on the lathes top or cross slide can save a hell of a lot of time since once the works been turned it's already as concentric as the lathes bearings will allow.

If the lathe is large enough Little Machine Shop in California sell the complete milling head with the motor from the Seig X2 mill. And you can also get them with an R8 taper in the spindle. Last I checked they were around $300 - $350 I think.

spro
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Re: Utilizing capablities

Post by spro » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:28 pm

I never thought about a worm across the bull gear. The type dividing head we both mention is also the type used by Versa Mill/ Master Mill. It has a three legged fixture which is attached to the left cover. The head drives an internal expanding collet which may be turned to conform to the spindle. It's a serious worm drive divider (#32-106) with 6" double plate. It does weigh about 15# but is easily attached into the previously mounted fixture. I've seen these on ebay and since there is no obvious way of mounting anything, may be a good deal for someone who knows what it is.

spro
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Re: Utilizing capablities

Post by spro » Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:02 am

Pete was saying about Hemingway or Quick Step vertical heads. Serious neat vertical milling heads. These are made in England and then discontinued for a bit. They are higher speed and cool in many ways. We don't hear about them much here, likely because the local market supports their product. Well, Pete knew. I apologize for blowing right past his recommendation.
There is a lot of things done on lighter machines to tight tolerances and this head does not present 50lbs weight to do it.

pete
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Re: Utilizing capablities

Post by pete » Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:17 am

Well I kind of got introduced to the English/U.K. methods just through the how to books and magazines I've bought over many years Spro. One thing lead to another and you start to pick up things that may not be quite as common over here. I've got an extensive collection of British magazines from 1897 right up into the 1960's called Model Engineer magazine. Then most of the one's in the 1980's and 90's plus a lot from then up until a few years ago.

It's more than interesting to see the history and development of the lighter duty machine tools that were designed for the home shop guys over the last 100 years or so. But it's all from the British perspective. One example is almost no home shops had anything like a separate milling machine unless they were very rich. An average mill cost at least 3 times or more than what there lathes normally sold for. Any milling was almost always done on the usual 6"-10" swing lathe's cross slide, and if they were lucky they had a lathe milling attachment. And there was more than a bit of very complex work done that way. Probably in the middle to late 1970's a few of the Asian mills started showing up along with a few smaller British built mills. Tom Senior would be just one of those manufacturers. BCA would be another although that machine was really a small jig borer and mostly designed for watch/instrument work. Both machines are easy to find on Tony's lathes uk website. There is many more cottage type businesses over there that cater to the home shop or Model Engineers as there usually called than what we have here. That Hemingway Kits company is one I can highly recommend. For a really good selection of books I can also say the same about Tee Publishing and Camden Publications. Shipping is fairly expensive though.

I've mentioned it here before, but for anyone who doesn't yet have a copy? George H. Thomas "The Model Engineers Workshop Manual" is by far the very best book I've ever read out of everything else I have about machining. It's taught me far more from that single book than almost all of the rest I own put together. A lot of really good designs in it for lathe accessories, shop projects, etc. Most is designed for the English Myford Super 7 lathe but all of it wouldn't be too tough to redesign for just about any other machine. George had a real eye for design and I'd have to say he was one of the very best. His lever operated tool post or the same for his lever operated top slide would be an excellent addition to any lathe for threading. His other book "Workshop Techniques" goes into a lot of detail about dividing and lathe head stock dividing. It's also very good as well. The British home shop guy's came up with a great deal of very clever tooling over the years. That Quick Step Milling head is just one of them.

Over here that Versa Mill you mentioned would operate much like it and it's still being made today. A lot larger and heavier machine, and a LOT more money also. There's a few threads about them over on the PM general forum. I do own one of the Quick Step mills that I bought from Hemingway, but due to some health/life issues it hasn't been used yet. It will get used, I'm just not sure when that will happen. I do think it's very well made and for me I do think it was worth the fairly high price. But it's not really a vertical head although it could be used in that orientation, it's mostly used with it's spindle in the horizontal position. "Live tooling" is the big deal on CNC lathes today, and what works there can also work just as well on a manual lathe. I just need to come up with an accurate method of indexing my lathes spindle. I've got a few ideas that should work.

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