Turnout detents?

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rkcarguy
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Re: Turnout detents?

Post by rkcarguy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:44 am

A lot of these parameters(like Pontiacguy1 stated), have to be designed in. For instance, being I will kick the turnout into position and just want the switch stand to operate as a "slave", the throw on the turnout will exceed the throw of the stand, which will have pretty soft springs on it's linkage. If the stand were to operate the turnout, the linkage on the stand would need to provide more travel than the turnout.
My back is in poor shape, so yes I wont be bending over. I'm planning to have ground bars to throw the turnouts ahead of the train so I don't even have to get out of the riding car. If I'm wanting to manually activate the turnout, say if I'm switching at the locomotive/rolling stock shed, I can just kick the plate instead of bending over.

I'll take some screen shots of my drawing and post them up for criticism. :wink:

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Re: Turnout detents?

Post by rkcarguy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:12 pm

swstand.jpg
turnout.jpg
Here's some screen shots from CAD, hope they make some sense.
The switch stand is a "kit" I'll have laser cut. It will utilize 1/4" plate, a section of small pipe, and some 3/8x2 flat bar bent for the verticals.
I can make a large top plate with notches in it, for the handle to lock into when the switch stand will actually be used to change the turnout. As drawn, this one is an indicator only. The handle will hang at a slight angle, or be able to be pulled up and shoved inward to turn the turnout by hand.
I've drawn 3 positions of the moving parts, so disregard the 3 bearings at the draw bar detent and at the holes in switch stand arm, its just to make sure I have the throw distances correct.

The notches in the discs are for a coupler nut, one will weld to the nut, the other disc will "egg crate" into the other one so they can be slipped together after painting.

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Erskine Tramway
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Re: Turnout detents?

Post by Erskine Tramway » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:41 am

rkcarguy wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:24 am
For a vandal resistant version, I would recommend to make the base very stout. A coupler nut could be welded to the shaft that sits flush with the top of the "casting" portion. Then, a socket would be welded to a upper shaft, handle, and finally the colored disc(s), which would simply be lifted out and stored away.
While we are on this subject, how do you guys typically size your switch stands? Most of the tallest ones I've seen are maybe 1'-2' taller than a man. That's only 12" tall in 1/8 scale (1.5").
I'm modeling in 2", so I am planning on anywhere from 18-24" tall.

I was laid up for a few days, so I missed this. My CB&Q stand is 79" to the top of the shaft. On the big ones, the shaft that holds the target is separate from the shaft that goes down through the base casting. They are held together by a pair of angles bolted through both. The top of the lower shaft is square, after it comes through the 'table' of the base, so your idea of a coupling nut and socket attachment is a good representation.

HighLine stand detail.jpg

As for height, our stands on the R&GN Ry. were 12" to the top of the table, and 34" to the top of the shaft. And, you had to bend over, or get down on one knee, to throw them :) Of course, I was younger then :shock:

QC 127 break in run detail.jpg

I can't find a picture at the moment, but some of the newer 'back track' switch stands we had on the BN were fabrications of a vertical 4" square tube welded to a base plate, with gussets at the base, and a flame cut table.


Mike
Former Locomotive Engineer and Designer, Sandley Light Railway Equipment Works, Inc. and Riverside & Great Northern Railway 1962-77
BN RR Locomotive Engineer 1977-2014, Retired

rkcarguy
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Re: Turnout detents?

Post by rkcarguy » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:57 pm

It's interesting, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for how the stand is placed. I've seen them placed so the wide side is facing the train traffic, and then rotated 90* to that. I've modeled the stand so the narrow side faces the train, in best interest of keeping the stand a lower profile and further from the tracks with shorter ties.

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Re: Turnout detents?

Post by rkcarguy » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:20 pm

Here's one oriented the other way compared to the pic in my first post.
Attachments
turnoutstandDRGW.jpg

rkcarguy
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Re: Turnout detents?

Post by rkcarguy » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:28 pm

Here we go. What do you guys think?
This one is 20" tall overall. In my scale it's about 20% oversized.
swstanddwg.jpg

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steamin10
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Re: Turnout detents?

Post by steamin10 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:27 am

Nice execution. Has the look and feel of the real thing. I made some out of pipe fits and rod stock. The vandals had a field day.

The club made a much more expensive ground throw out of aluminum square tube that nested between the ties and had a hinged cover. It was spring loaded so it was a rubber switch against the set direction. Mostly it attracted a lot less attention and they were seldom tampered with, unlike the sentinel represented by the model.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

rkcarguy
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Re: Turnout detents?

Post by rkcarguy » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:54 pm

Thanks Steamin. Do I extend the top of the base "casting" up so its just under the start of the threads on the rod, or leave as is?

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steamin10
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Re: Turnout detents?

Post by steamin10 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:09 am

I dont know your details so I wont hazard an answer. Suffice it to say, you built it, you should have a feel on how well it works, or not, and react accordingly.

Mine was based on a half inch rod for the shaft and washers and pipe fits welded and pinned together. i used 8 penny nails to make rivets for the pins and target attachment, just peened over. It was too soft and vandals ripped the targets off first and them kicked the screws out of the ties. I was not happy.
The body was half inch black pipe with a hex cap and a flange on the bottom with 2 straps for the tie base. Kiss rule, and cheap. A 4 foot rod made 4 switch stands . Most of the time was cutting and brazing the washer to the hex cap and fitting out the bent lever that went in the slot to lock the position.

Not an original idea as that came out of the old Live steam magazine years back, and I liked it. I think I made 6 of them for around $20 at the time. Casting kits were about $40 for the two legged things like yours. Most people wont know the difference.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

rkcarguy
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Re: Turnout detents?

Post by rkcarguy » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:31 am

I'm just kind of eyeballing the real stand vs. my CAD drawing and looking at the scale of everything. Not sure if I should make the lower part taller or not. Because these are pretty small parts, our laser is going to zip these out and I'll be able to have them nested into what would typically go into the scrap dumpster, so my only cost is going to be the bushings, bolts, and paint. If I started selling them, well yeah then work is going to want me to pay for the machine time, but for me personally it's not a big deal.

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Re: Turnout detents?

Post by rkcarguy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:11 am

Erskine Tramway wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:41 am
rkcarguy wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:24 am
For a vandal resistant version, I would recommend to make the base very stout. A coupler nut could be welded to the shaft that sits flush with the top of the "casting" portion. Then, a socket would be welded to a upper shaft, handle, and finally the colored disc(s), which would simply be lifted out and stored away.
While we are on this subject, how do you guys typically size your switch stands? Most of the tallest ones I've seen are maybe 1'-2' taller than a man. That's only 12" tall in 1/8 scale (1.5").
I'm modeling in 2", so I am planning on anywhere from 18-24" tall.

I was laid up for a few days, so I missed this. My CB&Q stand is 79" to the top of the shaft. On the big ones, the shaft that holds the target is separate from the shaft that goes down through the base casting. They are held together by a pair of angles bolted through both. The top of the lower shaft is square, after it comes through the 'table' of the base, so your idea of a coupling nut and socket attachment is a good representation.


HighLine stand detail.jpg


As for height, our stands on the R&GN Ry. were 12" to the top of the table, and 34" to the top of the shaft. And, you had to bend over, or get down on one knee, to throw them :) Of course, I was younger then :shock:


QC 127 break in run detail.jpg


I can't find a picture at the moment, but some of the newer 'back track' switch stands we had on the BN were fabrications of a vertical 4" square tube welded to a base plate, with gussets at the base, and a flame cut table.


Mike

Good info and pics, thanks Mike.
In the picture I posted with the green diamond switch stand, I see that the handle is straight down the side of the stand. Where would this handle be oriented in comparison to where the points are? I want to make sure I index my handle to the linkage arm correctly and I have no idea how the prototype was aligned in that aspect.

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Re: Turnout detents?

Post by rkcarguy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:40 pm

I made some final modifications to the drawings, and separated all the parts out for laser cutting. I was able to source a lower profile 1/2x5/8 bushing, so I reduced the pivot tube to 1/2" schedule 80 pipe instead of 3/4".
I also made the targets smaller and more to scale a 3" circle and a 3-1/2" diamond, and then lengthened the bolt I'm using for the shaft to a 12" bolt so I still have the same height. I also reduced the bent bars to 1/4x1-1/2 flat bars, shrank the top plate down a bit, and then drew up an alternate top plate for a locking version(the handle will swing down and lock into a slot) of the switch stand that will drive the turnouts at the train shed instead of the "slave" style that are indicators only.
Because I have a big 50 pack of grease fittings, I might as well drill and tap holes in the pivot tubes for them, these things should last a long time.

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