Cement ties

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jscarmozza
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Re: Cement ties

Post by jscarmozza »

The lead inserts didn't work very well, so we tried making blocks from scrap plastic lumber and embedding them in the concrete tie, the blocks are 1"X1"X 2" with 1/2" drill dimples on each face to help the concrete grip. This may be a winner!
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Bill Shields
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Re: Cement ties

Post by Bill Shields »

Dimples are a good idea on what looks like a very good concept
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Dick_Morris
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Re: Cement ties

Post by Dick_Morris »

That looks like a good plan. a little reverse draft on the inserts would keep them in place. That would save one operation on the insert.
Steam Engine Dan
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Re: Cement ties

Post by Steam Engine Dan »

lookin good john, here are a few pics from earlier this week. im almost finished with the hill.
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jscarmozza
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Re: Cement ties

Post by jscarmozza »

The track is looking great Danny, maybe when you finish the 1-1/2" track you can help us place the concrete ties on the 1" :D
Steam Engine Dan
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Re: Cement ties

Post by Steam Engine Dan »

lol
mspetersen
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Re: Cement ties

Post by mspetersen »

Keep in mind that the Class 1's had a lot of trouble with Concrete Ties. For starters they discovered that they don't lock into the ballast like wood ties do. If you look at a used wooden tie, the sides look like they were beaten all over with a hammer. That's the ballast squeezing into the ties, Concrete doesn't allow that to happen and that's why modern Concrete ties have a lot of angles along the sides. Because that ballast doesn't lock into the ties as well, the Class 1s learned that you need to run a tamper 2X times a year (or more where there's a lot of temperature swings) in order to try to keep the ballast locked tight.

Luckily you're not hauling unit trains of coal like BNSF & UP do in the Powder River basin. They discovered that coal dust mixed with mud created a abrasive slurry that literally chewed up the ties until they crumbled and could no longer hold gauge. Took a few major derailments to discover that.

One of the major concrete tie manufacturers also wasn't doing a good job of quality control, which was discovered as their ties started crumbling about 5 years after installation. They replaced them, but installation was left to the railroads. If you think replacing a wood tie is hard, try doing concrete. Neither easy or fast.
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Steam Engine Dan
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Re: Cement ties

Post by Steam Engine Dan »

good points mark, ive got a friend that works for Amtrak that has told me stories just like yours about concrete ties. but yet it's interesting the railroads still keep using them despite all these facts mentioned. interesting. me personally, I think they should be using composite ties like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRNiE7GjqLg
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Bill Shields
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Re: Cement ties

Post by Bill Shields »

Eu and asia have been using concrete ties for decades successfully..it is just a case of learning how.

That and good luck finding creosote...giggle
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NP317
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Re: Cement ties

Post by NP317 »

Bill Shields wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:38 pm Eu and asia have been using concrete ties for decades successfully..it is just a case of learning how.

That and good luck finding creosote...giggle
Note that European trains have much lower axle loadings than USA trains.
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Re: Cement ties

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Interesting innovation with plastic blocks in cement. Looks like it might be a winner! Wondering if there something wrong now with just using the original plastic inserts?

It would be wonderful if plastic ties were available at a reasonable cost. Problem is they are obscenely expensive - particularly in the grand scales (4 x6 x 12’ tie now are $305 each). Before the pandemic, twice the cost of wood.

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jscarmozza
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Re: Cement ties

Post by jscarmozza »

There's nothing wrong with plastic inserts Glenn, I was trying to come up with a way to have a little flexibility in the gauge for curves and straight always and to utilize the tie plates that are the standard at my club. The embedded blocks may be the answer...maybe. I can get 20 ties from an 80 lb. bag of Sakrete,these ties are a little bigger than the first batch that I made to provide a little more cover on the plastic block. They're cost efficient, but there is definitely a labor component to making them. It would be nice if someone made 1" scale ties. John
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