Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

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ChuckHackett-844
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Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

Post by ChuckHackett-844 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:52 am

I'm wondering how many tracks (private, club, park scale, etc.) have automatic signal systems with track-circuit train detection, specifically, how many tracks have systems that:
  • Support train separation only (i.e.: not bi-directional)
  • Support full-time bi-directional running (predominately passing sidings)
  • Support full-time bi-directional running with engineer choice of different routes (Wye's, complex interlocks, etc.)
What type of system is used? (commercial, home/club developed, relay/solid-state, etc.)

Does it support simply occupied/unoccupied or does it have "claiming" lockouts to only permit a single train to enter a block?
Regards,

Chuck Hackett, UP Northern 844, Mich-Cal Shay #2
Owner, MiniRail Solutions, RR Signal Systems (http://www.MiniRailSolutions.com)
"By the work, One knows the workman"

rkcarguy
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Re: Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

Post by rkcarguy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:30 pm

Chuck, I'm going through the build of my large scale "train set" and have built some home brew signals and relay banks for my private home track.
Just using relays, not directional, with operating rules and turnout position/train sensing across the rails to properly indicate the signals. The sensing relays have not yet been chosen, as the leakage/resistance of each block needs to be measured once installed and somewhat built to suit.

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ChuckHackett-844
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Re: Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

Post by ChuckHackett-844 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:11 am

Hmmm, it's been quiet on this subject ... I know there are at least 1/2 dozen tracks out there using full-time signals, including, I think Maricopa, LA ... and, of course Illinois Live-steamers (BDD? :-) ) ...

Everybody out Christmas shopping? :D
Regards,

Chuck Hackett, UP Northern 844, Mich-Cal Shay #2
Owner, MiniRail Solutions, RR Signal Systems (http://www.MiniRailSolutions.com)
"By the work, One knows the workman"

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chiloquinruss
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Re: Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

Post by chiloquinruss » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:05 am

Train Mountain has a system for a portion of their layout. It is used mostly in the congested area around the main yard and Central Station areas. It is of the type as your #1 post and is also of the occupied / unoccupied type. During large meets their are also several powered turnouts that also include directional signals. With no dispatcher SOME of these can be controlled local. In addition to there is a section that was bi-directional for a couple of years that is now part of a larger loop but the signals are currently dark but could be fired backup if desired. Russ

Here is a link to our web page with some of the system links into the system.
http://trainmtn.org/tmrr/pages/signals_ ... _ctc.shtml

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johnpenn74
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Re: Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

Post by johnpenn74 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:40 pm

Well,.... I think Absolute Permissive Block is great and am working diligently to add more. At CSME/ Eagle Point we have 1 signal bridge covers the passenger loading platform (on a curve) and both tracks do red/ green to give occupancy.

This past weekend I finally got an APB signal head working (yes works in the snow and the rain). It gives indicate based on the home, advanced block and switch position.

Back in the day at the Old NGLS track, Rich D had build a wonderful signal system that was automatic reading home and distant blocks. The catch was the track was a circle burner. APB worked really good to space out trains but didn't do much for opposing traffic.

I personally am tired of capture the flag (manual track warrant, manual block, what ever you want to call it) and aspire for something that is more prototypical. I will spend my efforts to build something greater not lesser.

JP
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John Pennington

Logging meets that actually move logs

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johnpenn74
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Re: Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

Post by johnpenn74 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:46 pm

One of Richards signals.
Attachments
Signal.jpg
John Pennington

Logging meets that actually move logs

Project
2 Mich-Cal Shays
Allen 4-4-0 Narrow Gauge Conversion
Two Reading A5a Camelback 0-4-0
USRA 0-6-0
Clishay
4 Western Wheeled Scraper NG Dump Cars
N&W 4-8-2
ICM 2-10-2
4 Modern Stake Cars
L&N Caboose
4 Big Four Conversion Gondolas

Like I'm actually gonna build all this stuff :-P

rkcarguy
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Re: Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

Post by rkcarguy » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:11 pm

Looks good John. What's the blue light for?
That a relay matrix running that setup? Or did you buy something off the shelf?

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johnpenn74
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Re: Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

Post by johnpenn74 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:44 am

The brains in this one is just relays, like the prototype. Granted I am not using polar relays, but a hard wired array to make the signaling decisions. Off the shelf,.... HA! Pictured below is the third go around in the design. I am trying to strike a balance between what is prototypical and what is reasonable for failsafe components in the design.

The blue light is for lunar which is for restricted. The safetran standard has started to replace Permissive reds with Blue. That is, some times you can run a red (under restriction). I expect to see a lot of it on the RR as there are several locations where one goes off the signaled block into a unsignaled block.

I am using blue to indicate restricting proceed rule 290 instead of 291 and 294. For this project I want use multiple heads on masts but simplify what is displayed so as not to confuse the user.

Most operators would not see the difference in a mast with a plate "P" or block number distringushing between 291 and 292. I feel the color is the best method.

In most cases it indicates you are going into UNSIGNALED territory, hence the need for restricted speed.

JP
Attachments
1202180905.jpg
Why the blue 002.png
John Pennington

Logging meets that actually move logs

Project
2 Mich-Cal Shays
Allen 4-4-0 Narrow Gauge Conversion
Two Reading A5a Camelback 0-4-0
USRA 0-6-0
Clishay
4 Western Wheeled Scraper NG Dump Cars
N&W 4-8-2
ICM 2-10-2
4 Modern Stake Cars
L&N Caboose
4 Big Four Conversion Gondolas

Like I'm actually gonna build all this stuff :-P

Berkman
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Re: Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

Post by Berkman » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:24 am

Have a chart of the new signal aspects with the new automatic signals at EPRR?

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johnpenn74
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Re: Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

Post by johnpenn74 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:49 am

Yes I do!!!!
Its real simple.

Route indication, with a very reduced amount of aspects.

JP
Attachments
Eagle point Signal Rules 001.png
John Pennington

Logging meets that actually move logs

Project
2 Mich-Cal Shays
Allen 4-4-0 Narrow Gauge Conversion
Two Reading A5a Camelback 0-4-0
USRA 0-6-0
Clishay
4 Western Wheeled Scraper NG Dump Cars
N&W 4-8-2
ICM 2-10-2
4 Modern Stake Cars
L&N Caboose
4 Big Four Conversion Gondolas

Like I'm actually gonna build all this stuff :-P

rkcarguy
Posts: 1367
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

Post by rkcarguy » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:26 am

The neat thing about a relay matrix system is that it's easily added to, once you figure it out. Just add another relay matrix and wires/diodes back to the prior blocks and you've just expanded. Hardest part is probably burying the wires.
Because my line is going to end up like a big backwards "J" around my home and driveway, I'll have 3-4 spots where I can tap into 110V power near the tracks, so I expect wiring the signal system to be pretty easy as I won't have to run power any long distances, only the "sensor" wires for each block between the relay cabinets.

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BigDumbDinosaur
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Re: Automatic Signals: How many tracks use them?

Post by BigDumbDinosaur » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:10 pm

johnpenn74 wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:49 am
Yes I do!!!!
Its real simple.

Route indication, with a very reduced amount of aspects.

JP
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