Passenger train help!

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Passenger train help!

Post by Greg_Lewis » Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:53 pm

HI Doc:
Since you plan on hauling folks on a regular basis, something you might do is to talk to some of the larger 7 1/2 gauge clubs that have been doing this for years. Many years ago I visited the British Columbia Society of Model Engineers and they haul many, many people during their operating season, and they have put lots of experience into the design of their riding cars. What's left of my memory seems to think that Live Steam magazine may have had an article or two about their cars and some of the other elements of running for the public. Perhaps someone here knows which issues that was in.
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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Passenger train help!

Post by Greg_Lewis » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:17 pm

Ah, found the article. Nov/Dec 2001. The article includes the reasons behind the design. The car looks somewhat like a bulkhead flat. The article also mentions the trucks and says they have some that have run for 24 years without needing bearing replacement. I made one to this design and it has worked out great. It's a very stable car.
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NP317
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Re: Passenger train help!

Post by NP317 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:57 am

The T-type passenger cars I am familiar with (7.x" gauge) also have drop centers very close to the rail head.
If passengers try to tip the car, the car bottom slides on the rails and stabilizes the car.
They are my preferred cars for passengers on our railroads. Especially where insurance is involved...
RussN

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Re: Passenger train help!

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:05 am

I second using the T-style cars for riding the public... They are the best and most fool-proof design for people who aren't used to riding on a miniature train. If you are worried about prototypical looks, then add a couple of box cars, stock cars, etc... at the end of the train, and of course a caboose. Most people won't care, they just want to ride the 'Choo-Choo'. Be sure you have a conductor on the back, some type of liability waiver, and of course brakes on each riding car. At Mid-South we inserted a rule that nobody over a certain weight can ride the train. I don't remember what that is now, like 350 lbs or something like that. We also stated that Pregnant women are not allowed to ride public passenger trains. Keeping your speed reasonable is a must. 5 to 6 MPH max on a passenger train should be the rule. That means that your 2 mile trip is going to take about 20 minutes, not counting loading/unloading time. Seems to me to be a very long ride for the general public and seems like you will stay backed up during busy weekends unless you run 2 or more trains. Might think about cutting that time in half by cutting the distance in half. Most of the general public want to ride, but after about 10 minutes, they will start to become uncomfortable. Just some random thoughts, maybe not the best thoughts, either.

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Re: Passenger train help!

Post by Glenn Brooks » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:10 pm

Doc,

20” wide should not be a problem, so long as the frame and flooring are built with heavy material, to add counter weight down low.

We used 20 or 21” wide riding cars (can’t remember exactly) in our Santa Train in Hawaii years ago (7.5”). They were 24” wide originally, but terribly unstable at that width. I cut them down to approx 2.5” scale and the stability improvement was exceptionally better.

Just a thought here: You can make 7.5” work quite well - as many clubs have proven. But as you are starting from scratch, it might be worthwhile to re-look at your long term operation. 2 miles of track and 7 day a week operation will impart a lot of wear and tear to the 7.5” rail and equipment. Your ROW indicates you have a fairly large property with opportunity to use the train for maintenance and farm work. So as a thought... You will be much better off, over the long run, building in 12” or 15” gauge. The hobby gauges and design standards are simply not designed to withstand every day, commercial use. 7.5” gauge track and equipment, particularity brake systems, wears out very quickly with daily usage, and you will have higher maintenance down time, and very limited goods and equipment carrying capacity. The park gauge stuff is far superior for farm operation on a day to day basis. So, these are a just a couple of strategic reasons you might re consider the 7.5” approach.

Certainly if you decide to proceed with 7.5”, you can make it work. People will enjoy it. I’d be happy to discuss my experiences with 7.5” ga versus park gauge in more detail, if you decide to rethink your plan. Anyway Just wanted to throw this out there for your consideration. You’ll enjoy it, either way.

Glenn
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RET
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Re: Passenger train help!

Post by RET » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:03 pm

Hi,

Since you say you have a couple of 7.5" gauge locomotives, does it make any sense to run with 3 rails; 7.5" gauge for the locomotives and 12" gauge for the passenger cars? This would give a lot more stability for the people carrying cars.

I've been to the Burnaby track (back in 1988) and they had an impressive operation. For passengers, stability is important, because there is always going to be someone who wants to lean out to get a better picture or a better view and doesn't realize (or doesn't care) what a balancing act riding on two rails so close together can be. We know, but the average member of the public doesn't.

Lots of fun.

Richard Trounce.

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cbrew
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Re: Passenger train help!

Post by cbrew » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:48 am

one topic i have not seem yet is springs on the trucks,
too soft tend to create a car that is unstable also.
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.

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Re: Conductors

Post by Kimball McGinley » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:52 pm

Slightly OT but worth mentioning because it was mentioned. At my club OCME the conductor rides backwards, basically back-to-back with the engineer, depending on car types. 3 advantages of this 1) the conductor can easily make EYE CONTACT with any passenger to discourage leaning, reaching, etc. 2) Communication with the engineer is very convenient. 3) conductor can see following trains and adjust train speed accordingly.
It is not that much further to walk back with a Red Flag when needed.

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Bill Shields
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Re: Passenger train help!

Post by Bill Shields » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:47 pm

I prefer pivot design riding car trucks with no springs.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Passenger train help!

Post by Greg_Lewis » Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:29 pm

I found a photo of the Burnaby style riding car I made. One of the points made in the article that perhaps is worth mentioning here is they put a limit to the swivel of the trucks to 12 degrees of either side of the centerline. This keep the trucks from turning completely sideways, digging into the ballast and ties, which would damage the trucks and perhaps the passengers, due to the sudden stop. Also you can see on the left end the hand holes I put in the ends which make it easy to lift the car when (not if) it derails. (Although with good trucks and track, I don't recall any derailments with this car.)

IMG_8456.JPG
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

UPsteamfan
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Re: Passenger train help!

Post by UPsteamfan » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:50 am

Hello Friends
Greg, thank you for sending the article on the Burnaby cars.
Everyone has brought some great comments, suggestions, and concerns. We will be discussing these in the coming months. Thank you.

Back to the Funny Farm
Doc

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Passenger train help!

Post by Greg_Lewis » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:02 pm

I forgot about the thread I put up here on building a Burnaby car. Here's a link:

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... p?t=106881
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

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