Fabricated Cylinders

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steron567
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Fabricated Cylinders

Post by steron567 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:46 pm

I have been all over the web looking for plans and or instructions for building fabricated locomotive cylinders. I have found plenty of photos and some descriptions but no "real" plans with dimensions per-se. All that I have found pertains to piston valve, can slide valve cylinders be fabricated? I think that anyone interested in steam would find this info helpful, so everyone please post your thoughts and ideas and plans.
Steve R.
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FriscoJim
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Re: Fabricated Cylinders

Post by FriscoJim » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:43 pm

I've seen slide valve cylinders whittled out of stock, such as cast iron or brass, and I've also seen slide valve cylinders fabricated from round stock for the cylinder and bar stock for the slide valve seat. This allowed the passageways to be milled from the slide valve ports to the ends of the cylinders before the two parts were silver soldered together. Otherwise, the passageways in the ones from solid stock are usually just drilled from the end of the cylinder to the milled port at the slide valve.

I'm sure the other forum members will have some good ideas or suggestions on fabricating slide valve cylinders - you know what they say, "There's more than one way to skin a cat, but for the cat the end result is the same!"
Jim P.

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Curtis_F
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Re: Fabricated Cylinders

Post by Curtis_F » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:27 pm

steron567 wrote:I have been all over the web looking for plans and or instructions for building fabricated locomotive cylinders. I have found plenty of photos and some descriptions but no "real" plans with dimensions per-se. All that I have found pertains to piston valve, can slide valve cylinders be fabricated? I think that anyone interested in steam would find this info helpful, so everyone please post your thoughts and ideas and plans.
Well...the reason you haven't seen plans for making a set of weld-frabricated cylinders as they're generally one-off parts for one-of-a-kind locomotives that won't work on any other engine. So the builders tend not to make detailed plans.

I know of a few weld-fabricated slide valve cylinders, and they all leak internally. Though all of them are usable and do get used.

Weld-fabricated cylinders are a 3D jigsaw puzzle that you glue together using line-of-sight welding. If you can't see the seam, you can't weld it. On slide valve cylinders it's rather difficult to put them together and see what you're doing through the whole assembly. Piston Valve cylinders can be (but not always) much easier if designed properly.

In most cases your better off fabricating slide valve cylinders out of a solid block, or a solid casting than by welding.


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BAdams
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Re: Fabricated Cylinders

Post by BAdams » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:13 pm

Steron,
Jan Eirc Nystrom has some photos on his website on how he built his slide valve cylinders http://www.saunalahti.fi/~animato/3003/3003x.html but alas no dimensions.

Brook

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Fabricated Cylinders

Post by Greg_Lewis » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:12 am

I've thought about this and it seems to me that you could succeed if you made up the valve block and the cylinder block and silver soldered them together with silver solder paste using some sort of oven-style heating setup. The solder paste can be applied all over the joint zone so you aren't trying to feed solder into the joints, and wouldn't have solder voids that lead to leaks. The oven heating would get it all hot at once. You'd also need to use pilot screws to locate the parts. I did some journal boxes for some arch bar trucks this way -- there were six pieces in each -- and they came out fine, albeit there was no issue with internal leakage. I set up some firebrick in a hutch shape and used a propane weed burner for the heat.
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Re: Fabricated Cylinders

Post by Ironflyer » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:11 am

Steron,

Have you seen the article on it by Tim Olson in the May 93 issue of Modeltec?
Put runners thru the plate, and porting in a block on top of it, for a slide valve in a chest..

Paul

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Greg_Lewis
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Re: Fabricated Cylinders

Post by Greg_Lewis » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:24 am

Another thought: Seems to me that the issue would be the joint between the cylinder and the valve block. Why couldn't that joint just be gasketed, using any one of a number of methods such as RTV or gasket material? After all, auto cylinder heads are gasketed. Bolt the two together, use Locktite on the threads and call it good? The operating temps would certainly not be above the limit for gaskets. Any reason why not?
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

steron567
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Re: Fabricated Cylinders

Post by steron567 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:25 am

Well...the reason you haven't seen plans for making a set of weld-frabricated cylinders as they're generally one-off parts for one-of-a-kind locomotives that won't work on any other engine. So the builders tend not to make detailed plans.

Even if they are for a one-off project, they would be a useful starting point as to how to go about building them using your own required dimensions and steam passage formulas etc.
Steve R.
Certified train nut!

steron567
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Re: Fabricated Cylinders

Post by steron567 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:26 am

Jan Eirc Nystrom has some photos on his website on how he built his slide valve cylinders http://www.saunalahti.fi/~animato/3003/3003x.html but alas no dimensions.

WOW!.......And with minimal equipment too!
Steve R.
Certified train nut!

Ironflyer
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Re: Fabricated Cylinders

Post by Ironflyer » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:14 pm

Steve,

there are dimensions in the Modeltec article that could give you an idea for ballparking what you want,
it's a bolt-up,
..maybe along with Jan's construction with slides,
this is what I am contemplating,...

if you can't find the article I could mail you copies of it,

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SZuiderveen
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Re: Fabricated Cylinders

Post by SZuiderveen » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:26 pm

The 6 April, 20 April, and 4 May 1973 issues (3462-3464) of Model Engineer have three Don Young articles on "Fabricating Cylinders", though the example cylinders are piston valved.

Steve

steron567
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Re: Fabricated Cylinders

Post by steron567 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:57 pm

I found this today....Also, take a look at:
http://www.sci.fi/~animato/3003/index060.html
and look for Fabricating cylinders, part I, II and III
(the rest of the site is interesting reading too!)

Jan-Eric has an interesting approach to things.

Very helpful if you are fabbing cylinders, the series seems quite descriptive of how it all comes together.
Steve R.
Certified train nut!

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