Speeder project

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Harlock
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Speeder project

Post by Harlock » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:50 pm

Last weekend I picked up a partially completed Fairmont style electric speeder from Dave Fontes. They made a run of four of them, this will be the fifth.

This speeder is extended about 6" longer than the similar commercial ones you see; it allows two kids to sit on it comfortably.

This speeder is primarily for my girlfriend's 10 year old daughter to zoom around in. She also runs steam from time to time.

A completed one is shown in the second photo.

Remaining mechanical items are to finish up parking brakes, add a motor, chains and the rest of the sprockets, batteries and a controller. SyRen controller was donated by "Fresnojay" Jason, much thanks!

Cosmetically wood and / or metal panels attach to the existing frame easily and a partially finished radiator set made out of wood and a section of a real radiator were included with the project.

This project fulfilled my goals of something less expensive and not too labor intensive as I have a number of other projects going on right now. The kid is very excited about having her own speeder.
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Harlock
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Re: Speeder project

Post by Harlock » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:31 am

The frame has been powder coated in two colors - red was the preference of the lady's daughter who will be using it most often, and I saw another one with silver handlebars and liked it. With the powder coat I'll never have to worry about painting it again. Always a good choice where people will come in direct contact with metal a lot with shoes and what-not.

I extensively modified the motor mount bracket with new holes and changed slots etc. to accomodate the motor I found which was different from the motor used for the other four. I don't use my rotary table often, but I'm glad I have it for the times when I need it.

The motor currently has a non-standard hub with a sprocket for a #25 chain. I'm leaving this on temporarily while coming up with a hub adapter for a #40 chain sprocket. It will be OK pulling just the speeder by itself for now. The chain from the motor is at the high speed / low torque end of the gearing.

Also removed the wheels from the axles, milled missing keyways in the axles and re-assembled, lots of cleanup and painting and now it's ready to go back together. While I had it down to component pieces I took a group photo, because I love those kinds of pictures. Other photos show progress as of last night with the first two chains and motor on. Just needs the final one from the rear axle to the front axle for AWD.

My dad is making some oak boards for the sides and the top will be mostly seat cushion and a control panel. I haven't decided whether I want to make the cushion myself (been doing that for my bench cushions) or have it professionally done with a nice bead around it and stitching.

This weekend I will probably pick up the batteries, hook up the controller and run it in place.

-M
Attachments
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14-10-22_speeder-progress-3808.JPG
14-11-13_speeder-parts-4994.JPG
14-11-13_speeder-parts-5032.JPG
14-11-13_speeder-parts-5029.JPG
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chooch
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Re: Speeder project

Post by chooch » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:41 pm

Harlock.
Looking pretty nice painted and the Handles are KUL!! :-) The young girl should Really like using that speeder.

Is that a Wood motor radiator face?
Another question. I also notice the lock nut on the axle end. Not having machines to turn an axle with a "shoulder" as a wheel stop, is that what You did or have another way to mount wheels?

Looks like you already have # 40 chain on your speeder.
Just MY thought but, for just a Speeder? Is that overkill, or just your preference to be sure for Long lasting.
I know many other small and Larger non-steam locos (and I) don`t use that high a chain number with no problems. (option for others info).

Thank you
chooch

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Harlock
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Re: Speeder project

Post by Harlock » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:41 pm

Yep wood radiator pieces. Dan O'Brien's gas powered commercial version of this speeder uses a single piece casting. You can buy the castings from him separately although they currently show out of stock. I like the shape of the wood ones better in any case. finishing them to look like metal is a bit of an extra challenge though, lots of sanding. :)

The wheels rest up against a shoulder and are keyed. They are a light press fit and you can place them part way on by hand and then turn the lock nut to tighten them up against the shoulder. Once it's on it's on real good and you have to press them off plus the retaining nuts to make sure they don't go anywhere.

Chain: 40 is definitely overkill, #25 seems too small. #35 would be about right. I might use #35 for that connection.

The speeder came with some sprockets for #40 so I stuck with that for most of it. The other four use #40 chain throughout. I guess Dave wanted to make sure the chain would never be a problem.

The #25 chain is rated for 88lbs. So I'm assuming that means I could hang something that weighs 88 lbs off of it. It's probably not pulling that kind of force on the high speed end of the gearing but doing hard work could be a significant factor of it.

This is my first experience with chain and sprockets so I'm learning as I go along.

Thanks,

-Mike
chooch wrote:Harlock.
Looking pretty nice painted and the Handles are KUL!! :-) The young girl should Really like using that speeder.

Is that a Wood motor radiator face?
Another question. I also notice the lock nut on the axle end. Not having machines to turn an axle with a "shoulder" as a wheel stop, is that what You did or have another way to mount wheels?

Looks like you already have # 40 chain on your speeder.
Just MY thought but, for just a Speeder? Is that overkill, or just your preference to be sure for Long lasting.
I know many other small and Larger non-steam locos (and I) don`t use that high a chain number with no problems. (option for others info).

Thank you
chooch
San Lorezo Flume & Lumber Co. #2 - "Felton"
Live Steam Photography and more - www.mikemassee.com
Product Development and E-Commerce, Allen Models of Nevada

chooch
Posts: 567
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Location: East Central Florida

Re: Speeder project

Post by chooch » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:32 pm

Thank you for reply and explanation of wheels etc,
Just by color I thought the Radiator piece might be wood. Nothing wrong with that. Figured with your machine work and photos you making axle/wheel shoulders and No doubt threaded axles ends. That gives me something to think about not having the machines.

Number 40 chain. OK choice if a person is selling a product and wants real long lasting. I "Think" if I remember right, # 40 is true roller chain whereas #35 and less is not. BUT, plenty of speeders and locos are running with the smaller chain no problems. I have 4 locos with 25 and 35 chain, 4-6 and 8 whl. Whatever you use I believe you will burn the rails.

First time dealing with chain and sprockets. Yep, might have some leftovers till you get what you want just right. Being there is someone else on here that I have asked questions of sprockets, I don`t know if I dare offer any help. :wink: But I`m here.
Thanks.
chooch
---------------------
Harlock wrote:Yep wood radiator pieces. Dan O'Brien's gas powered commercial version of this speeder uses a single piece casting. You can buy the castings from him separately although they currently show out of stock. I like the shape of the wood ones better in any case. finishing them to look like metal is a bit of an extra challenge though, lots of sanding. :)

The wheels rest up against a shoulder and are keyed. They are a light press fit and you can place them part way on by hand and then turn the lock nut to tighten them up against the shoulder. Once it's on it's on real good and you have to press them off plus the retaining nuts to make sure they don't go anywhere.

Chain: 40 is definitely overkill, #25 seems too small. #35 would be about right. I might use #35 for that connection.

The speeder came with some sprockets for #40 so I stuck with that for most of it. The other four use #40 chain throughout. I guess Dave wanted to make sure the chain would never be a problem.

The #25 chain is rated for 88lbs. So I'm assuming that means I could hang something that weighs 88 lbs off of it. It's probably not pulling that kind of force on the high speed end of the gearing but doing hard work could be a significant factor of it.

This is my first experience with chain and sprockets so I'm learning as I go along.

Thanks,

-Mike
chooch wrote:Harlock.
Looking pretty nice painted and the Handles are KUL!! :-) The young girl should Really like using that speeder.

Is that a Wood motor radiator face?
Another question. I also notice the lock nut on the axle end. Not having machines to turn an axle with a "shoulder" as a wheel stop, is that what You did or have another way to mount wheels?

Looks like you already have # 40 chain on your speeder.
Just MY thought but, for just a Speeder? Is that overkill, or just your preference to be sure for Long lasting.
I know many other small and Larger non-steam locos (and I) don`t use that high a chain number with no problems. (option for others info).

Thank you
chooch

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Harlock
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Re: Speeder project

Post by Harlock » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:59 am

It's good to know that you are having success with the smaller chain.

I don't see an easy way around not machining axles - drive wheels need keyed axles, and something needs to hold the gauge...
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Harlock
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Re: Speeder project

Post by Harlock » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:22 am

I've been putting a couple of hours every night into the speeder for the past month, lots of fiddly little things and things to be made and re-made.

The main push has been to complete the drive mechanism and the parking brake mechanism.

In this post I'll cover the drive mechanism update.

The last thing needed on the drive mechanism is the long chain that connects the front and rear axles and its idler setup. You can see here that it is a rotating bar with two idlers to minimize vertical space, and also dodge the chain around the brake equalizing beams. The tensioner is a rod that connects to the motor mount plate as you can see in the last photo. I had to re-make the bracket that the shaft connects to at the motor mount due to a spacing issue, and the new one is much more sturdy and has a slot to adjust for side to side rather than just a hole. I am fortunate to have a good supply of stainless round stock at the moment.

I could not get the same idler sprockets that Dave used which used 3/8" ID bearings. I got some 5/8 ID idlers and had my dad make some custom shoulder bolts with a 5/8 shoulder surface and 1/2-16 threads. I drilled out and tapped the tensioner bar for the larger items and they work well.

The chain works except I discovered that the sprocket at the rear axle has teeth that are not concentric with its shaft hole. Apparently this is a production problem that can crop up with these inexpensive sprockets, I will order some more and see if I have better luck.

If the sprocket on either end is out of round, it shows up in a big way on that long unsupported run on the bottom of the chain.
Attachments
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14-12-11_speeder-6009.JPG
14-12-11_speeder-6012.JPG
14-12-11_speeder-6014.JPG
14-12-11_speeder-6017.JPG
San Lorezo Flume & Lumber Co. #2 - "Felton"
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Harlock
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Re: Speeder project

Post by Harlock » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:34 am

The next major thing to finish was the parking brake assembly.

None of the rod lengths are standard so all three had to be custom made from 5/16 stock. I find there are not very many different lengths one can get these days for threaded-end rods. For example McMaster had 6" and 8" rods but no 7" rods. These are all right hand thread, so to adjust the length you need to pull the pin on one end and turn the clevis. This turns out to not be a big deal and it is quite easy to adjust all the rods to get your control lever where you want it. Then tighten all the nuts to keep the rods from spinning in place. However if I were doing it from scratch I would have right-left sets. The all-right-hand clevis ends came with the project so I used them as-is.

For the actuator lever / rocker arm at the end of the central brake shaft, it originally had a single hollow point set screw to key it to the shaft. This did not work at all and instead I drilled all the way through the arm and the shaft and reamed to .3115, and then pressed in a 5/16 pin through all. Now it will last forever and not give any problems. The double arm in the middle that goes to the brake equalizing beams is welded on so that one is good to go.

When we built the Chloe we learned that rocker arms need a lot of strength. Gene Allen's original prints called for a small hollow pin in the stephenson valve rocker arms, and those would quickly shear off even with a properly set packing nut tightness on the back of the cylinder. We created a similar solution for the Chloe, with a larger solid pin in the form of a custom bolt in that case.

The brakes are sprung to the on position, so when you take the lever in the control panel out of a notch, they will hold the parking brake on gently. If you want to use them as E-brakes, you pull back harder.

The motor and controller have regen braking so they are not normally needed. Just to hold it in place while the motor is switched off.

Obviously the handbrake lever needs some finishing and cut to length and that's next. Everything has been disassembled since this photo again and some pieces are getting ready for paint. The wood is in for the side paneling and needs staining. The weather has been terrible so I haven't been able to paint or stain in a while. I am definitely going to be building a paint booth for the garage this winter.
Attachments
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14-12-21_speeder-6218.jpg
14-12-21_speeder-6216.jpg
14-12-21_speeder-6227.jpg
14-12-21_speeder-6228.jpg
San Lorezo Flume & Lumber Co. #2 - "Felton"
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Harlock
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Re: Speeder project

Post by Harlock » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:31 am

Hello all,

Now that the house is quiet and the relatives are gone, I have gone back into the shop to get the speeder running by New Years.

I located and drilled by hand 24 holes in the frame that will be used to attach the wood siding. Since this did not begin as my project some things have to be done out of order. The siding on the other speeders that were built was quite different.

Fortunately the weather gods have smiled upon me and have allowed for a few days of temperatures and weather suitable for staining.

The oak panels I stained with miniwax 'classic oak' with built in polyurethane sealer, satin finish. I like the two-in-one stuff, saves time. Two coats gives a nice finish.

I use classic oak if I want a lighter finish, and on car decking I'll typically use golden oak, a bit darker. The more coats you apply the darker it gets as well. One little can will do a lot of decking or siding.

The speeder has handles that allow you to pick it up one end at a time if it needs to be re-railed. They also serve as bumpers if you leave them in. They are also oak. two came with the speeder and we replicated another two.

The last item for today was a small mill and disc sander job, a pair of battery hold downs made from hardware store steel stock. They'll get a powder coat and then they're ready.

I have the materials to build the seat and a temporary control panel, plus some wire mesh screens for the front and back. The seat I will make tomorrow morning. Also picking up a replacement axle done in a friend's CNC shop as I am lathe-less at the moment. The original rear axle had some issues.
Attachments
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Erskine Tramway
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Re: Speeder project

Post by Erskine Tramway » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:01 pm

Hi Mike......

Do you do your own powder coating? If so, what do you use for heat to cure the powder?

I've got the gun, but no "heater" yet.

Thanks,

Mike Decker
Former Locomotive Engineer and Designer, Sandley Light Railway Equipment Works, Inc. and Riverside & Great Northern Railway 1962-77
BN RR Locomotive Engineer 1977-2014, Retired

hammermill
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Re: Speeder project

Post by hammermill » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:57 pm

I built some reflective heat panels using oven elements and al face heat board . 2 elements will set inside the big glass bead cabinet that I also use as a coating cabinet hook them up to a infinity switch or other control device

a infared heat gun for the parts is handy also


I have been enjoying the speeder project. fun all the way around

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Harlock
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Re: Speeder project

Post by Harlock » Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:57 am

Erskine Tramway wrote:Hi Mike......

Do you do your own powder coating? If so, what do you use for heat to cure the powder?

I've got the gun, but no "heater" yet.

Thanks,

Mike Decker
The large pieces like the frame go to a professional powder coat shop nearby.

Small pieces go to a friend who modified a conventional household oven to do his powder coat curing. He added an extended section so it can accommodate things up to maybe 24" long. He coated an 8X20 or so battery mount plate that I have not posted pictures of yet. I think a regular oven could work for you as well.

I would eventually like to have my own powder coat capability, the gun setup is a few hundred dollars, but then need to acquire my own oven, and build the small paint booth I have been thinking about building, so it requires some doing to get the whole thing going.
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