Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

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BadDog
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Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

Post by BadDog »

I have a big variable speed 20" Porter Cable drill press I picked up a quite a while back. It was a pig-n-a-poke bought unpowered, but for what these things bring and that spindle and "all the important stuff" seemed good, new Leeson TEFC 1.5 HP motor, it looked really good, so not that I need another, but it became mine. Got it all in order, fired it up, and it ran good. Tried the VS and it got worse and worse above or below the mid range. I'm no stranger to variable speed "reeves" drives, so I realized pretty quickly that the PO had flipped the drive sheave on the motor. They have to be mounted with the floating side opposite. "Humph, easy enough mistake to make, and easy to fix", I think happily to myself. And as you might expect from the title, that's where things went bad. Turns out he likely tried flipping the drive sheave because the hub was badly worn... full stop...

So, the 1.5 HP motor has the fairly typical 2.25" long 0.875 keyed shaft. The motor looks fine and fairly new, so undoubtedly a replacement for the one that wallowed out the hub. But the pulley hub is made to suit a 5" long shaft. No idea if they were originally that long, but a 5" shaft would get past the damaged part and likely run just fine off the remaining undamaged bore, particularly since that is the load side of the hub (where the belt runs), and the damaged end is really just for the spring and slide for the floating side. However, I have not yet turned up a suitable 1750 RPM 1.5 HP (or 2HP would work) motor with a 5"+ long 7/8" shaft (or larger that could be turned down). Anyone got one they care to donate to the cause? Assuming the answer is no, I'll move on to other repair options.

So, all that said what are my options. The OD of the hub, which is some sort of cleanly machineable cast iron, can basically be considered 1.43 OD, which is actually the bottom of the snap ring groove. But you can't bore anywhere near that without compromising strength of the hub itself. Inside the bore there are (2) 3/16" keyways 180* apart. Exploration with the t-gage indicates that the wallowed out bore varies from 0.889 at the opening to 0.910 at the worst part roughly 2.25" in from the end that goes against the motor. So based on the key slot(s) depth, I figure the absolute limit on max bore is about 1.063. With the keys and necessity of drive mechanism, I can't just bore it and press a sleeve in without some way to include a key or similar.

Some of my ideas. Mainly it boils down to stabilize the damaged end and utilize the remaining bore by extending the shaft.

1) Turn a 1/2" "spud" on the end of the motor shaft and press on a 2.5" long lathe turned extension. Joint would be deeply chamfered and welded, then turned for small clearance groove, cut/extend key slot, install. This ignores the 2.5" of wallowed out bore relying totally on the extension. This seems the best solution other than getting a long shaft motor. This could also be combined with cleaning up the bore in the hub and turning just a short bushing to press into the hub (and bored in-situ) to simply locate the assembly coaxial at the motor side of the hub (also could be done for long shaft motor).

2) Bore the hub to 1.063 to 2.5" deep to remove the damage and provide a uniform bore. Make a 5.5" long repair shaft. The extra 1/2 is 1.375 dia next to the motor providing a key slot for driving. The repair shaft is bored 0.875 to fit the full motor shaft. Installed with key and sett screw, this basically becomes a stepped shaft to fit the stepped bore in the hub. The drive transfer for the hub would be via key in the undamaged 2.5" portion. Not only lots of opportunities to blow fairly tight tolerances, but even if it all comes together perfectly, not being an ME, I'm not sure if the sleeve portion of the repair shaft would be sufficient given the fairly high loads on the end of the hub due to the belt. The whole thing feels like a kludge, but seems would provide full support (such as it is) for the entire 5" hub bore length. I've done a sketch and it appears possible, just not convinced t his is the right repair. The up side of this one is that it doesn't require tearing down the motor to extend the shaft. False economy here I think...

Anyone have other thoughts to offer? I know this is pretty wordy, but in this case I don't think pictures will help. if you just picture a 5" long 1.43" cast iron hub with 0.875" keyed bore wallowed out half way up, you basically have it right.
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John Evans
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Re: Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

Post by John Evans »

Russ: My choice is #1
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Re: Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

Post by spro »

At some point I did a search about motors, over at P. M. There was the shaft length issue. My search was for a generally available motor having outboard bearings. ( been over that topic). A fellow posted that he "regularly" refits longer shafts into motors. The guy was convincing in that it is not difficult, with an accurate press (and experience) to press the shaft out of the rotor. ( I didn't get around to doing it, found a suitable motor) However, that option remains.
The wallow is about .045 over the .875 shaft. The shaft probably has 1.000 bearings, so if you pressed a longer shaft, turned to 15/16 ( .938 ) or less, it would be useful. You'd still have to bore/ream but thinner than a sleeve. just thinkin.. :)
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Re: Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

Post by wlw-19958 »

Hi There,

What is the OD of the pulley? I have a pulley off of a
Powermatic drill press but I don't remember what model.

I bought it to put on my lathe temporarily so I could overhaul
the VS pulley for my lathe. It was the same size except
the bore of my lathe pulley is 5/8" and I made a reducing
sleeve so the 7/8" ID of the drill press VS pulley would go
on the 5/8" motor shaft. This was a simple slip-in sleeve
with a 3/16" keyway and I made an extra tall key that would
span the distance from the 5/8" motor shaft trough the sleeve
to the 7/8" bore keyway.

Anyway, I overhauled the drill press pulley and then put it
on my lathe so I could overhaul the lathe's VS pulley. After
that, the lathe's VS pulley was put back on the lathe and
the drill press pulley was put in to the "spare parts" collection
(somewhere in the shop). I'll check to see if I can find it.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
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BadDog
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Re: Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

Post by BadDog »

Thanks all.

Excellent idea spro, hadn't considered the over sized shaft. I know nothing about re-shafting a motor, I'll have to investigate.

Webb: It's the variable speed Reeves drive. Big wide belt, one side of each pulley "floats". Sounds like (I'm scarred to be optimistic) you may be describing a fixed size pulley? If it is the VS pulley, I would be very happy to find you have and would be wiling to part with that drive pulley, and will happily pay for the privilege. That was my original hoped for resolution, and one reason I put the whole project on hold for a while to give it time for something to show, but it never did.

The biggest problem here, and a big reason for all the original words, is that the stack up of required bits (keyways mainly) is killing me, and there is not much room/material to work with. If it were not for the keyways, I would just bore it to clean up, shrink fit a sleeve into the bore, then bore it to size in place. But that doesn't work when I have to then cut a keyway.
Last edited by BadDog on Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BadDog
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Re: Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

Post by BadDog »

I didn't expect it to be relevant, but just in case, I went back to the shop and grabbed a few pics. Here is a pic of it with the main pieces in place, and another of the specific piece I need (or need to fix).
Attachments
Major pieces
Major pieces
Damage part
Damage part
Russ
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wlw-19958
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Re: Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

Post by wlw-19958 »

Hi There,

Yes, I know what a "Reeves Drive" is and we are talking about
the same thing. The pictures look just like it but the OD may be
different. Frankly, I think you are being slightly insulting to me.
If you hadn't notice, I did mention it was a VS pulley (VS for
"Variable Speed").

In my case, the bronze sleeved section of the hub was worn and
I cut off the old bronze section and pressed on a new section and
machined it to size. This is the "rebuild" I alluded to in my earlier
post. The adapter sleeve I mentioned was to adapt the 7/8" bore
to fit the 5/8" motor shaft.

As I mentioned, this was done solely so I could use the pulley on
my lathe so I could fix the lathe's original VS pulley. Except for
the bore, the two pulleys are identical.

Maybe it would have help if I mentioned my lathe I was using at that
time was a "Logan by Powermatic" and has a Reeves type VS drive.

IIRC, the pulley I have was off of a Powermatic 15" drill press but
I'm not sure. It may be the same pulley as yours but I wanted to
check OD of your pulley to see if it is the same as mine. The Reeves
Drive on one machine can have different pulley diameters from another
machine.

Anyway, good luck with your rebuild. I'll just keep my "Spare Part."

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
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BadDog
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Re: Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

Post by BadDog »

I'm very sorry, no insult was intended at all, but if that is how my hasty and excited reply came across, please forgive me. I’m afraid it was more a case of I couldn't believe I could possibly be that lucky after all this time and giving up on finding that part, that one would appear so quickly as soon as I started looking at repair options. So in order to align your response with my general experience I suppose I “assumed” it might well be a fixed pulley (suitable for wide belt, like the Rockwell idler) that you used to make do with while fixing your VS pulley. Many is the time I thought good luck struck from out of the blue only to find some tiny detail crashed the whole deal. And I try not to assume anything not clearly evident (which as you said, yours really was), anyone can overlook a key word or phrase when reading, or accidentally not be complete when replying, particularly while typing with frequent distractions. That's one of the reasons my posts tend to be so long wended, I don't want to overlook anything that the reader might not know, or that I "assumed" would be obvious. In hasty response I certainly have overlooked things and in my haste to offer what help I can, I made completely irrelevant or even potentially harmful posts due to my making that mistake; and I give others the same leeway.

Hopefully with further thought on the matter you will consider the body of my other posts on this (and other boards), and I hope you will see that being intentionally insulting to experienced and knowledgeable or even to the inexperienced is really not in my nature. Not to mention I do “know” you and both your experience and helpful nature quite well from the board's history, and even if I were otherwise disposed to treat those I thought were somehow beneath me that way, it still would not apply to you. Sometimes I really hate the sterile environment of internet posts. Face to face, I don’t believe you would ever have felt that way as you would have seen the shocked excitement in my face as I responded to the effect of “Really!? The one I need is the green one, the one looks like this, that has this thingy over on the side, about so big… It is? Oh wow, fantastic!”.

But I totally understand your reaction, I might well do the same, so I very much thank you for your consideration anyway. Keeping such parts in your collection will likely save your bacon again in the future, and is probably a good choice anyway. So while I am disappointed, I do not in any way begrudge your choice. It seems quite ironic that my cynical view of the world appears to have been self-manifesting in this case. :o I'm not looking to change your mind in any way, but I do hope you will forgive the perceived insult, and otherwise I will continue with the search for a long shaft motor or extending the shaft of my existing motor. Always better to save what you can anyway, and I think this can be saved.
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Re: Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

Post by BadDog »

And on the repair front, I found this reference on PM. Most of what I've found so far don't seem to apply to these big motors (quite a bit for the little ones), but having taken my nighttime medication, my clarity for google searching is not at its best, so I will continue tomorrow. But this is a very intriguing solution. With my luck, the press will have to go in only one way, and it will be the wrong way for the oversize section I need, but what an excellent solution it would be if I could just replace the shaft with one just oversize enough on that interface length to clean up the bore AND provide a full 5” engagement with the hub. I’m not particularly thrilled at opening up what appears to be a brand new out of the box Leeson TEFC motor and risking it on my first time shaft replacement learning curve, or that it will be quite an involved project, but wow what a solution.

I had already considered a John Stephenson-esq “weld it all up and return it” solution to provide the same thing, but was worried about potential damage, and the fact that it would permanently capture the bearing on that side, so had discarded the idea pretty much immediately. It still effectively captures that bearing, unless I can find a replacement with suitable ID (not likely I think) so that the bearing seats on the new larger diameter. But still a solution that had not even occurred to me before.

For me, now off to bed and hope for a good night sleep. Hopefully tomorrow will provide more enlightenment. And again, thanks to all!
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Re: Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

Post by steamin10 »

In my working career, we have refitted many a shaft for the job at hand. Often motors and connections are designed for that particular machine, and a standard motor will not work being proprietary, (read expensive) to that machine. So a motor shop became our friend and regularly changed shafts for damage. In principal, I dont like making any machine a leper, by making oddball parts.

So now as I see it you have 2 problems to fix. First motor, 2nd a worn pulley. (part)

Consider a hybrid solution: Make, re manufacture the pulley, so that it is the motor shaft extension. Cut the pulley shaft in about half, and bore it to a good size. Make a cupped shaft that will sleeve the end of the motor shaft so that the stress lines are offset. Wed your new shaft to your pulley stub. By making a solid ended pulley shaft, you can drill a retaining bolt, that can be extended into the motor shaft end. Now you have extended the motor shaft through your pulley enxtension to your desired length, and have a locking bolt to keep its tensil draw working for you in keeping all the parts together.

When you sleeve the pulley to shaft connection, a bronze furnace braze would be ideal to make it all one part. Heat it up until wicking the brass in is a fuzzy operation, but can be easily done, or it can be a heat shrink, without welding/brazing anything. The important thing is to offset as much as possible the side stress lines, to eliminate the fatigue sought by the side pressure.

It is obvious, the shaft length gave no support, and the 'make it work' was deficient leaving too much wiggle that destroyed the fit. So with only a lathe available, I give you some thoughts to consider for a permanent repair, other than buying a motor and a 'new' belt assembly. Have fun. Dave
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
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BadDog
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Re: Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

Post by BadDog »

Hmmm, I'm afraid I don't quite follow on your description. I'm going to have to ponder that a bit. It's the "Cut the pulley shaft in about half..." part I'm not getting (and much of the remaining, but that seems to be the part where I get lost).
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Re: Reeves drive sheave hub bore repair

Post by steamin10 »

Ok, you are not in my right mind. So looking at your pic, if you cut the keyed sleeve on the pulley half shown, that would be your start. You would have the belt disc with a short but wallowed bore. If you open that bore to a good number, and then make that shaft tube extension to press fit into your stub and plate, you are on your way.

You only have to work out the final diameter, and overall length to pickup the length needed for the motor shaft extension. You are making a motor shaft extension, that ends with the disc and short mounting stub. By making it a bolt on, you eliminate the original wiggle problem, and tie it all to the motor shaft, essentially making all one unit.

The weak point as I see it is the reworked stub with the disc, as if this is allowed to move your wallowing problem will reappear, thats why brazing the assembly there would be best. A small gap allowance must be left for brazing, so the metal can wick in. Heat shrink may be enough, but any movement induced over time, will certainly destroy the joint like any other.

Can you see it in your minds eye?
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.
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