brown and sharpe

[earlgo]

I purchased a screw pitch gage on Amazon for another project that had a screw with 30tpi called for. Not wanting to purchase an off brand gage, I opted for one listed as Tesa brown and sharpe. Too bad I didn't think closer. Here is the cut from Wikipedia:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Brown and Sharpe)

Brown & Sharpe is a division of Hexagon AB, a Swedish multinational corporation focused mainly on metrological tools and technology. During the 19th and 20th centuries, Brown & Sharpe was one of the best-known and most influential machine tool builders and was a leading manufacturer of instruments for machinists (such as micrometers and indicators). Its reputation and influence were such that its name is often considered to be inseparably paired with certain industrial standards that it helped establish, including:
The American wire gauge (AWG) standards for wire;
The Brown & Sharpe taper in machine tool spindle tapers; and
The Brown & Sharpe worm threadform for worm gears.
Since being acquired by Hexagon Metrology in 2001, Brown and Sharpe has concentrated exclusively on metrology equipment.[1]
.....
In 2001, substantially all of the assets of the Brown & Sharpe Manufacturing Company, including the intellectual property, designs, trademarks, facilities and inventory, were acquired by Hexagon AB, although it did not acquire the Brown & Sharpe Manufacturing Company. The Brown & Sharpe brand of measurement products is manufactured by the Hexagon Metrology division of Hexagon AB, which retained many of the key individuals from the former Brown & Sharpe company. Since the acquisition, Brown & Sharpe-brand hand tools have been manufactured by Hexagon Metrology's TESA division in Switzerland.[1]

Apparently from the info marked on the label affixed to the plastic pouch, it is made by Tesa although the gage itself is etched made in USA.
I was shocked to find a logo other than the familiar B&S logo.

To me, this looks to be stamped rather than cut, due to the rounded tips. But it is 30 tpi.
--earlgo

[pete]

I fully sympathise with what your saying Earl. As far as I know B & S currently concentrates solely on there CMM division. Everything else seems to be rebranded with there logo and made by others. Some of it like there 123 blocks at a much higher price I'm not entirely sure aren't the same quality and accuracy as the standard off the shelf Chinese blocks and I'm not all that sure Tesa is 100% involved with some of the B & S branded products to be honest. But Tesa is still apparently a high quality manufacturer so I'd consider anything actualy made by them to be well made and accurate. So far the only B & S equipment I own is a second hand but still expensive 558 cylindrical square made I think shortly before they quit production in the early 1990's. It oozes quality and even the high grade wooden storage box with it's velvet lining for the squares supports does the same. B & S is to me a pale shadow of what it once was. I guess we can thank the usual bean counters and the now standard business practices so many have adopted to trade on a name and lower the quality just to increase profits for a short period.

A high percentage of my measuring equipment is now digital. Mitutoyo are usually thought to have some of the best for that due to there internal circuitry and well above what Starrett had at least a few years ago. For non digital gaging equipment I decided on Starrett including my thread gages. Today I'm not so sure I might not go with Mit. for that as well. But even the largest and best corporations rebrand some products. I have a super accurate Mitutoyo branded millimess indicator. Until last year I didn't inspect it all that close but was almost positive it was made by Mahr for Mitutoyo. After watching a Youtube video that showed the exact same indicator I double checked mine. Sure enough there's a tiny adhesive tag on the back that clearly shows it was made by Mahr for Mitutoyo. I believe at one time most high quality thread gages were stamped but then form ground for final accuracy. Maybe none are done that way anymore unless some of the Swiss and German manufactuers are still doing it that way on the very best equipment. My Starrett thread gages appear to be only stamped and I was a bit disapointed to see that for what they charge for them. A couple of years ago I decided to buy a new but old school style Starret surface gage instead of buying used from Ebay or elsewhere. I'm very dissapointed in what I got. No color case hardening, a nice run in the (uggg) gloss black paint, not even the ball on the end is there anymore for protecting and parking the curved end in there now. The base is thankfully at least flat. Today for a lot of the less accurate and critical additional metrology equipment I'm now thinking it might be far better to hunt for good condition and used just to get the much nicer old school quality. It can take a long time until something decent shows up without an insane price though.

[tornitore45]

My thread gauges are cheap import. First time used I notice the end was uncut, in other words the notches ended before the end of the leaf. You can visualize how such geometry is useless. I ground the ends down a couple mm and got a perfectly serviceable tool.
A Mitutoyo cost $45 versus my crappy $5, 10 minutes on the grinding wheels netted me $240/hrs for a hobby, a time I expect to cost me money, more that I ever made working, including benefits. Precision is often a misunderstood concept. Even the sloppiest process can make a thread gauge capable to distinguish between a 48 TPI and a 50 TPI, a ground, hardened thread gauge may make you feel proud and give you bragging right but is not more useful or accurate that a stamped $5 one.

[Howard Gorin]

Sorry, colored case hardening involves cyanide.
Very difficult and expensive to use or dispose of.
Starrett no longer uses that process.
Does any manufacture use that process now?
The purchase, use and disposal of many chemical now involves permits, licenses, insurance, and inspections.
A nearby plater spends about $500,000.00 a year just to use some of these chemicals.
This is why they have $100.00 minimum orders and I am greatfull that they will even handle my small orders.
I am paying more for the documentation then for the actually process.
The way the law is written, if one of my suppliers goes bust and there is evidence of improper disposal of hazardous waste then I can be held personably responsible for the cleanup and there is no limit to the cost or my liability.

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Sorry, colored case hardening involves cyanide.

Not strictly true. It depends on the steel composition.
The cyanide process was favored long ago because it was
cheap. Nowadays, the restrictions make it difficult to use
in this country. Color case hardening was done with chard
leather, bone and charcoal before the cheaper cyanide process
replaced it. The old system is still used by some firearms
manufacturers and specialty places to get those elaborate
colors.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

[pete]

Yep I knew about the use of cyanide for color case hardening and most likely it was the process used when Starrett or even Greenfield tap and die was still doing it. A big difference between that and a major run in the paint as far as what gets past there quality control today. One of Guy Lautards bedside reader books gives some good details about doing color case hardening at home using bone, fruit pits etc in a tightly sealed steel box. Cyanide might make the process cheaper and faster, but like Webb said it's still possible without it. If anyones still using the cyanide I'd think it would be a third world country with a lot less restrictions than we now have.

[Harold_V]

If anyones still using the cyanide I'd think it would be a third world country with a lot less restrictions than we now have.

So far as I know, it's still being used extensively (here in the US) in the recovery of fine particles of gold in oxidized ores. It has no equal, and allows for recovery from extremely low grade ores (as little as 1/10 ounce/ton).

H

[earlgo]

In 1989 I had some Marlin Rifle parts color case hardened by the following company:
Color Case Company
Box 27
14435 Unity Road
New Springfield
Ohio 44443
The parts came out very nice. I do not know if this fellow still does this type of work any more.

Golly, that was 30 years ago! My bad, we were talking about B&S. I'll personally apologize to the OP.
--earlgo

[John Hasler]

pete writes:
> One of Guy Lautards bedside reader books gives some good details about doing color case
> hardening at home using bone, fruit pits etc

Fruit pits should be especially effective. They contain cyanide. Hydrogen cyanide is also produced when many organic materials are subjected to pyrolysis, which is what happens when you heat them in a sealed steel box.

[GlennW]

Doug Turnbull has a pretty good grip on color case hardening, although, I didn't see a reference to the method used.

https://www.turnbullrestoration.com/turnbull-finished/

[BadDog]

I think I recall apple seeds also contain cyanide in low amounts.

Back to the B&S discussion. In my experience, you can't trust modern B&S products any more than any other modern label brand. I've got some late vintage B&S labeled adjustable parallels that are a sad distant competitor to a set of Starrett adjustable parallels I also have. They are about what I would expect of a Shars set, but with the B&S name.

However, I have a Swiss Tesa labeled DTI (B&S style) that I really like, which is quite competitive with my older high quality B&S DTIs. And the Tesa is large dial where all my B&S are standard size. For my money, one is no better than the other. Modern/new Tesa, I have no idea...

[pete]

Apologys about the cyanide OT Earl. And I certainly didn't know or at least remember that some fruit pits contain cyanide or that it was released when heated in a sealed box. Good tip and I'll try and remember that now. Thanks John and Badog.

Real gold mines process there crushed ore quite different than the mainly Copper with some gold as a by-product I've worked at Harold. The copper mines I've worked at use what's called froth flotation. It can miss a lot of the gold if a high grade seam is hit. You can actualy see a lot of gold being pushed along in the water outside of the waste rock outlets at the tailings dams when high content seams are hit. Any gold, silver, platinum that does get collected with the copper concentrate gets seperated during the smelting process.