Shop realities

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Harold_V
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Re: Shop realities

Post by Harold_V » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:23 am

TRX wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:01 pm
When a friend dug a trench for his power line he went ahead and dropped in a pipe for compressed air. He swears there are lots of uses for compressed air in the house, but he never can say what any of them are...
I ran air to my house, as well as my pump shed and my storage containers, which sit on a permanent foundation. I highly recommend it. I've used mine numerous times. Being underground, I violated all the rules and just used PVC pipe. If it fails, so be it. I put pressure to it (100 psi) about 18 years ago and it's doing just fine thus far. I do NOT recommend PVC where pipe is exposed, as it can fail catastrophically.

H
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liveaboard
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Re: Shop realities

Post by liveaboard » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:39 am

I also ran an air line in the same trench with power + water. I used pex for water + for air.
I have a low voltage data wire too, in each of 3 sheds is a button that triggers a time relay and runs the air compressor for an hour.
When I did that a few months ago, I wondered if the work of installing all the wiring and buttons would ever be recovered in time saved going out to turn on the compressor manually; I still don't know the answer to that, but it sure is pleasant to hit the button and have air without fiddling with keys, and not having to think about turning it off and locking up the container with the compressor in it when I'm done.

Long runs of sewer line are tricky with those macerator toilet pumps; I've installed many of them.
The check valves always leak, so the pump cycles from time to time. if the power is off, bad things can happen.
If the line snakes up and down, multiple air blocks can defeat the pump.
The last one I installed sits high enough not to flood back, and the line is angled to self bleed.

Harold_V
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Re: Shop realities

Post by Harold_V » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:44 am

I rarely turn off my compressor. My lines are reasonably tight, so it doesn't cycle often. I frequent my shop daily, and spend several hours there, and use air frequently. Don't know what I'd do without it, quite frankly.
I like your idea of using pex for air. Had I known then what I know now, I'd likely make the same choice, as it doesn't explode the way PVC does.

H
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RMinMN
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Re: Shop realities

Post by RMinMN » Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:25 am

SteveHGraham wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:38 pm
The box is in a garage. There are several conduits going up from the box into an eave area, and up there, they disappear from view. There is a conduit coming up where the wires enter the workshop. There is no conduit coming up out of the ground where the wires from the workshop enter the house.

It may conceivably be possible to locate the wires in the attic or wherever they are by moving a great deal of fiberglass, but that would only tell me where the wires go back down toward the ground. I would still have to find some kind of tube by the base of the house where the wires from the shop go in.

Once all that is done, I still have to decide whether it's a good idea to pay someone to replace what must be an extremely long run of wire, going through the ground, up into the attic, along the wall, and down into the box.

That tool looks neat, but did you check the price? It's $1250.
The conduit from the shop may not go to the house. When you say the "box is in the garage" are you talking the breaker box for the house, garage, and shop? That garage is where I would be looking for the conduit to the shop.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Shop realities

Post by SteveHGraham » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:12 am

The line from the power company goes to the garage. Inside the garage, there is a big circuit breaker panel. Conduit leaves that panel, goes up into the attic, and somehow exits the house at another point and runs to the workshop. The point where it exits the house is shrouded in mystery.
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curtis cutter
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Re: Shop realities

Post by curtis cutter » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:47 am

Harold_V wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:23 am
TRX wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:01 pm
When a friend dug a trench for his power line he went ahead and dropped in a pipe for compressed air. He swears there are lots of uses for compressed air in the house, but he never can say what any of them are...
I ran air to my house, as well as my pump shed and my storage containers, which sit on a permanent foundation. I highly recommend it. I've used mine numerous times. Being underground, I violated all the rules and just used PVC pipe. If it fails, so be it. I put pressure to it (100 psi) about 18 years ago and it's doing just fine thus far. I do NOT recommend PVC where pipe is exposed, as it can fail catastrophically.

H
I would have no hesitations to run PVC underground. How would you transition to steel coming out of the ground? Could you use a section of maybe 1.5" pipe to cover the plastic to steel transition to keep the steel out of the ground? I know they wrap steel pipe for compressed gas with a heavy plastic but I worry about corrosion regardless.
Gregg
Just let go of it, it will eventually unplug itself.

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SteveHGraham
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Re: Shop realities

Post by SteveHGraham » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:15 am

How big a pipe do you need to run shop air between 120 and 150 feet?
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

curtis cutter
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Re: Shop realities

Post by curtis cutter » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:49 am

SteveHGraham wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:15 am
How big a pipe do you need to run shop air between 120 and 150 feet?
I believe that would be totally dependent on the CFM you would want at the house.
Gregg
Just let go of it, it will eventually unplug itself.

John Hasler
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Re: Shop realities

Post by John Hasler » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:56 am

My compressor is in my machine shed, close to the shop. I ran 10' of PVC underground from the shed to the shop. It's exposed above ground for about 3' on the outside of the shop and for about 1' inside the shed behind the compressor. I don't see a significant hazard there. The transition to steel is made with the usual fittings. PEX is a better idea, though.

I don't have any air right now (except for a pitiful little 1/2 hp portable compressor) and I miss it. My 2 hp threw a rod and the pristine looking 5 hp I bought at an auction turned out to have a pinhole leak in the bottom of the tank which I discovered only after I had it all fixed up to my satisfaction: rewired, new gauge, suitable connectors and valves, drain valve piped out to where it's reachable...

Now I need to move the 5 hp over to the tank from the 2 hp, which I had all fixed up as an auxilary tank. A tank with a hole in it is scrap, of course.

If you're worried about the bit of PVC exposed above ground before the transition just slip a section of steel 2" schedule 10 or similar over it. Doesn't matter if it slowly rots away at the bottom where it touches the ground.

curtis cutter
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Re: Shop realities

Post by curtis cutter » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:12 pm

Sideline a touch here but in the fire station I am assigned to I installed a system to precharge the fire engine and tender with air to the brakes to avoid idling to build pressure when we receive a call.

Basically I have a radio receiver that monitors the dispatch frequency for the tones that are particular to our fire district. When the radio "sees" the proper signal, it closes a set of contacts that activates a delay on release timer that ultimately controls a solenoid valve that allows air to fill the drop lines to the apparatus.

With this system, the compressor sits full of air and ready to go, there is no chance of a runaway compressor if a line breaks when the volunteer fire station is unoccupied, it greatly reduces the continual pressure on lines and reduces moisture in the system.
Gregg
Just let go of it, it will eventually unplug itself.

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BadDog
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Re: Shop realities

Post by BadDog » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:50 pm

SteveHGraham wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:15 am
How big a pipe do you need to run shop air between 120 and 150 feet?
Don't forget about humidity and condensation. If the line can't be drained (or blown clear?), I expect it would eventually prove to be a problem.
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John Hasler
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Re: Shop realities

Post by John Hasler » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:09 pm

BadDog wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:50 pm
SteveHGraham wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:15 am
How big a pipe do you need to run shop air between 120 and 150 feet?
Don't forget about humidity and condensation. If the line can't be drained (or blown clear?), I expect it would eventually prove to be a problem.
Hasn't been a problem yet with mine, but it's short. If it fills up I can stick a hose down it and pump it out. I just thought of a way to prevent the problem from developing but it might not work for a long line.

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