Fan Boy
- SteveHGraham
- Posts: 7788
- Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
- Location: Florida
Fan Boy
My shop now has 100 amps of 250V power instead of 50. I paid someone to do the work. It cost a fortune, and I think I could have saved most of the money by doing it myself, but I do everything here, and I felt like it was time to pay someone.
Today I'm thinking about comfort, among other things.
I don't know how much longer I'll live here, but I don't intend to suffer when the hot weather comes back. This summer, I was sweating so much my eyelashes kept sticking together. Wearing any kind of eye protection made it very hard to get anything done.
I got myself a pedestal fan, and it's fine, but I have to move it around, and I have to aim it around things.
I'm thinking of putting several ceiling fans up on the trusses with a remote control on each. I don't want to hardwire them right away, because I may move them. I'm thinking I'll dedicate one electrical socket to them. I'll plug in a power strip, plug several remote-control units into it, and run extension cords to the fans from these units. This way, I'll be able to turn any fan on or off from anywhere in the shop.
What I'm wondering is whether this will get the job done in a very hot, humid climate. Has anyone else here had success with ceiling fans?
I would have to have several fans in different places in order to make this work. You have to be almost directly under a fan to get any benefit in the summer. I could get fans that have remote control built in, but they cost over three times as much, and I see no reason to do it.
I thought about getting fans and motion sensors so they would turn on when I approached them, but I suppose they would shut down whenever I sat still for a while, and that might get annoying. I think they would also be expensive.
Today I'm thinking about comfort, among other things.
I don't know how much longer I'll live here, but I don't intend to suffer when the hot weather comes back. This summer, I was sweating so much my eyelashes kept sticking together. Wearing any kind of eye protection made it very hard to get anything done.
I got myself a pedestal fan, and it's fine, but I have to move it around, and I have to aim it around things.
I'm thinking of putting several ceiling fans up on the trusses with a remote control on each. I don't want to hardwire them right away, because I may move them. I'm thinking I'll dedicate one electrical socket to them. I'll plug in a power strip, plug several remote-control units into it, and run extension cords to the fans from these units. This way, I'll be able to turn any fan on or off from anywhere in the shop.
What I'm wondering is whether this will get the job done in a very hot, humid climate. Has anyone else here had success with ceiling fans?
I would have to have several fans in different places in order to make this work. You have to be almost directly under a fan to get any benefit in the summer. I could get fans that have remote control built in, but they cost over three times as much, and I see no reason to do it.
I thought about getting fans and motion sensors so they would turn on when I approached them, but I suppose they would shut down whenever I sat still for a while, and that might get annoying. I think they would also be expensive.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
Re: Fan Boy
I've got several tactics.
1) A big "American" (brand) commercial pedestal fan. It works well, but a pain to move around.
2) A home made super fan made from a 5 ton central AC air handler squirrel cage I kept after an AC replacement. Moves a truly ridiculous volume of air. I mounted it on a $5 yard sale solid wheel 2 wheel dolly for easy mobility.
3) 2 swamp coolers for hot dry days, but that won't help you.
4) 220V large (not sure size) "window mount" ac unit suck through the wall up high. That won't keep it chilly at 115, but does keep it fairly comfortable.
5) A few inexpensive ceiling fans strategically located over general work areas (machine cluster, fabrication table, small bay work area) for added air movement to supplement AC cooling effect.
1) A big "American" (brand) commercial pedestal fan. It works well, but a pain to move around.
2) A home made super fan made from a 5 ton central AC air handler squirrel cage I kept after an AC replacement. Moves a truly ridiculous volume of air. I mounted it on a $5 yard sale solid wheel 2 wheel dolly for easy mobility.
3) 2 swamp coolers for hot dry days, but that won't help you.
4) 220V large (not sure size) "window mount" ac unit suck through the wall up high. That won't keep it chilly at 115, but does keep it fairly comfortable.
5) A few inexpensive ceiling fans strategically located over general work areas (machine cluster, fabrication table, small bay work area) for added air movement to supplement AC cooling effect.
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper
Master Floor Sweeper
- warmstrong1955
- Posts: 3568
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:05 pm
- Location: Northern Nevada
Re: Fan Boy
I have one ceiling fan in my shop, but I put it in to circulate the air when I'm running the cooler or the heater. As far as keeping cool with it, you can't feel any breeze from it unless you stand directly under it. It does do a good job equalizing the temp high & low, but that's about it.
I have a small, about 24", pedestal fan, which also oscillates. It does a pretty good job. No good when welding though, unless it's stick.
I installed a window mount swamp cooler several years ago, and haven't used the pedestal fan much since. Like Russ said, one of those won't help you, they are built for us desert rats.
I have a small, about 24", pedestal fan, which also oscillates. It does a pretty good job. No good when welding though, unless it's stick.
I installed a window mount swamp cooler several years ago, and haven't used the pedestal fan much since. Like Russ said, one of those won't help you, they are built for us desert rats.
Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems.
- SteveHGraham
- Posts: 7788
- Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
- Location: Florida
Re: Fan Boy
I bought casters for the pedestal fan today. That should help.
I have about 7 months to figure this out. Then it gets hot again.
I have about 7 months to figure this out. Then it gets hot again.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
Re: Fan Boy
One ceiling fan, one split unit AC in my shop, keeps me cool.
Jim B
Jim B
Re: Fan Boy
One Ceiling fan and I live in the tropics, when it gets too hot and humid I escape indoors into the air con!!
Re: Fan Boy
Look into cooling vests. Kept me working when I would have otherwise melted.
The plant I worked in had ceiling fans and we turned them off in the summer because they drove the heat down. Needed in the winter but not in the summer.
Pete
The plant I worked in had ceiling fans and we turned them off in the summer because they drove the heat down. Needed in the winter but not in the summer.
Pete
- tornitore45
- Posts: 2077
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:24 am
- Location: USA Texas, Austin
Re: Fan Boy
Ceiling fans are fine for a living-room but but for real cooling when one is working not so good.I don't know how much longer I'll live here, but I don't intend to suffer when the hot weather comes back.Today I'm thinking about comfort, among other things.
I do not know how long I'll live, here or anywhere else, but is not going to be too long.
I spend a lot of time in my garage and it get impossibly hot in summer and even cold in winter in TX.
I have worn out a couple of tower fans, they are in my way and only cool one side of me when they turn the right way.
So I decided it was time to solve the issue right.
I had a Mitsubishi mini split heat pump installed. 1.5 Tons for a 3 car garage $4,630 Now working in the garage is a joy.
The unit is very efficient SEER=20.5 it has proportional control so it runs as hard as necessary instead of cycling.
It may not be what you want, your barn may be to large to cool, but sometime taking the bull by the horn is better than a plethora of palliatives. You can't take with you.
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX
in Austin TX
Re: Fan Boy
Well, at least you won't get any hassles from your insurance company if an electrical failure burns down your shop—if the installer was a licensed professional.SteveHGraham wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:52 am My shop now has 100 amps of 250V power instead of 50. I paid someone to do the work. It cost a fortune, and I think I could have saved most of the money by doing it myself, but I do everything here, and I felt like it was time to pay someone.
Speaking as one who used to do design work on HVAC for railroad cars and locomotive cabs, my not-uneducated opinion is you're not going to be impressed with the results, due to stratification and humidity build-up. What your fans would be doing is recirculating the heated air that has stratified at ceiling level. Furthermore, that air will be more humid than the air at floor level, as the capacity for air to hold water in the evaporated state improves with temperature. Succinctly stated, unless supplemented with air conditioning, what your ceiling fans will be doing for you is circulating hot, humid air, and making you more uncomfortable.Today I'm thinking about comfort, among other things...I'm thinking of putting several ceiling fans up on the trusses with a remote control on each...What I'm wondering is whether this will get the job done in a very hot, humid climate.
Your perception of temperature is strongly influenced by the relative humidity. This is why mechanical air conditioning is effective. While reducing the air temperature makes it more comfortable, the removal of humidity makes your body's evaporative cooling system, sweating, more efficient. The lower the relative humidity, the greater the effect sweating has on body temperature.
Contrary to what you might think, a small shop won't require all that much in the way of air conditioning capacity to be comfortable. A temperature goal for your shop can be 78 degrees F. Dehumidification is more important than absolute temperature. In general, the A/C unit should be sized so that it is in cooling mode about 80 percent of the time at the desired interior temperature on a hot day. If the unit is too small, it will be in cooling mode 100 percent of the time, but unable to meet the temperature goal. 100 percent cooling mode time will also hasten the eventual death of the A/C unit's compressor. If the unit is too large, the temperature goal will be met, but relative humidity will be high because dehumidification only occurs while the compressor is running. You won't be comfortable in either case.
Getting back to ceiling fans, their value is greater during the heating season than cooling, especially if the ceiling is at least 10 feet above the floor. During heating season, ceiling fans should be run so they blow downward, which brings the stratified warm air back down to the room's occupants. The effect of doing so is marginal with a ceiling height of 10 feet or less, typical of most residences. During the air conditioning season, fans should be run so they blow upward, but only if the ceiling is less than 10 feet above floor level—fans at a higher level should not be run in conjunction with air conditioning. Upward blowing creates a "rosebud" air flow pattern that reduces the tendency for cool, dehumidified air to settle near the floor. The effect can be quite pronounced on a hot day when the cooling cycle on time is long.
As for sizing an A/C unit, you need to figure out the delta-T of the building in BTUs per hour (BTUH, note that "tonnage" ratings for A/C units are always suspect—they are more an advertising tool than a planning one; BTUH is what matters). Once you know the delta-T you can size the unit so its evaporative capacity is slightly higher than the delta-T determined for the highest average local temperature. If you've correctly carried out this process you will have a comfortable workspace.
Last edited by Steggy on Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Music isn’t at all difficult. All you gotta do is play the right notes at the right time!
Music isn’t at all difficult. All you gotta do is play the right notes at the right time!
Re: Fan Boy
My secret when working in the summer in sunny, south Florida, is TWO fans!. I have the garage door open with both fans blowing toward me. This keeps the sweat to a minimum and allows working with metal. If your barn is too hot, you might consider having the underside of the roof sprayed with insulating foam. Keep the heat from coming thru the roof and you can keep fairly comfortable.
- SteveHGraham
- Posts: 7788
- Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
- Location: Florida
Re: Fan Boy
You left some things out, unfortunately.Contrary to what you might think, a small shop won't required all that much in the way of air conditioning capacity to be comfortable.
The shop is 900 square feet, with no ceiling and two steel garage doors, so without a huge infusion of money, it is not ready for air conditioning. It's not just an air conditioning job. It's a construction job. You can't just stick an air conditioner in the wall and turn it on. There would have to be drywall and insulation for the trusses, insulation on one garage door, and a totally new garage door on the other end, because the existing one can't be insulated. The ceiling alone would run three grand. Based on what I see on Ebay, I would have to invest over two thousand dollars to get an insulated roll-up door, before installation. I would have to spend a little money on added insulation for the other door. With installation and permits, that puts me over $6000.
I don't see myself climbing on a ladder and installing drywall 12 feet off the ground. Maybe I should do it, but it sounds like a month of misery. I don't even know if it's possible for one person to do that.
I can get a wall unit for maybe $700, but to get to the point where it will cool the shop, I have to spend almost 9 times that much.
Maybe it would be possible to lower the humidity without spending as much, but I would have to keep the shop closed to keep humid air out, and it would get very hot.
I'm thinking about moving to Tennessee next year, so I am reluctant to keep spending money on alterations to the property. The added amperage was a real luxury buy.
I put casters on the big fan today, and it was very helpful. The fan was hard to move without them, and now it rolls around freely.
The thing is, it's not radiant or accumulated heat. It's hot with the building totally open. Fans work, but you have to be right in the line of fire. This is why I was considering more than one ceiling fan. I would have to be almost directly under them.If your barn is too hot, you might consider having the underside of the roof sprayed with insulating foam. Keep the heat from coming thru the roof and you can keep fairly comfortable.
Foam is an interesting idea for an air conditioned shop. I don't know if they spray foam under roofs this far south. I recall there being some kind of code problem with it in Miami. I believe I would still need a ceiling, so it might be a waste of money.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
- SteveHGraham
- Posts: 7788
- Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
- Location: Florida
Re: Fan Boy
Well, this is a hell of a thing. I just learned that the Florida Building Code does not apply to "nonresidential buildings on farms." I live on a bona fide farm. There are cattle pooping on my grass 75 yards away.
If I don't have to tussle with the government, maybe it would not be so bad to put drywall up. I was envisioning myself studying the code and dealing with inspectors.
If I don't have to tussle with the government, maybe it would not be so bad to put drywall up. I was envisioning myself studying the code and dealing with inspectors.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.