Electrical wiring in the home shop.
- tornitore45
- Posts: 2077
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:24 am
- Location: USA Texas, Austin
Re: Electrical wiring in the home shop.
Fires are not so common in Europe because practically all houses are brick, blocks, concrete and stones, even partitioning walls.
Tiles are far more prevalent than carpets.
The house I lived in until married had a 220V 10A service, when the rare fuse blew we replaced the link between the screws with thick solder.
Fire stations are a lost sparser in Europe cities than in the US
Tiles are far more prevalent than carpets.
The house I lived in until married had a 220V 10A service, when the rare fuse blew we replaced the link between the screws with thick solder.
Fire stations are a lost sparser in Europe cities than in the US
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX
in Austin TX
Re: Electrical wiring in the home shop.
Good evening, everyone.
I have not used correct nomenclature, during my explanations, because it may confuse non electrician types. The proper term for a neutral wire is, "Grounded current carrying conductor" and a hot wire would be a "Ungrounded current carrying conductor". Another thing is that when doing derating calculations, for multiple conductors in a conduit, sometimes neutrals are considered current carrying conductor, and sometimes they are not. The difference depends on if the load is considered reactive or resistive. Reactive is when a load has transformers or capacitors in them, where resistive is load with heating elements and such. A general outlet that the load could be anything, is considered, resistive.
I live in the state of Washington, and they abide by all the codes of the NEC, "National Electrical Code", then we have the WAC rules,"Washington Annotated Code, and the RCW's "Revised Code of Washington" to follow when wiring. The NEC has recently required GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters) and AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter breakers to be installed in residences. They also manufacture a combination breaker that has both. Breakers went from abut 5 bucks to 50 bucks each. The Arc Fault breakers have brain that can detect the signature of an arching connection, and will trip. In the beginning there was a bunch of nuisance tripping. An arc from the brushes of a vacuum cleaner would trip the breaker. The type of circuit determines the type of breaker required. All bedrooms and living spaces require Arc Fault breakers. Any receptacle within 5' of water require GFI, are just some of the examples.
I use to use a isolation transformer, between my test equipment and the unit being worked on, so a floating hot would not toast the test equipment.
Mr Ron wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:21 am Thank you Patio for your electrical expertise input. I agree that one should use the correct nomenclature when describing anything. Being an engineer, I subscribe to correct nomenclature, but I guess that is not considered important to non-engineering/technical types.
I have not used correct nomenclature, during my explanations, because it may confuse non electrician types. The proper term for a neutral wire is, "Grounded current carrying conductor" and a hot wire would be a "Ungrounded current carrying conductor". Another thing is that when doing derating calculations, for multiple conductors in a conduit, sometimes neutrals are considered current carrying conductor, and sometimes they are not. The difference depends on if the load is considered reactive or resistive. Reactive is when a load has transformers or capacitors in them, where resistive is load with heating elements and such. A general outlet that the load could be anything, is considered, resistive.
In the USA, most homes have a 200A/240V single phase. Some larger homes have 400A/240V single phase systems. Three phase is usually reserved for industry, but can be had in residential, for a cost. Harold is one of the few people I know that have had 3 phase installed in their home or shop.liveaboard wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:57 pm I thought that by now there must be such a thing as an over current circuit breaker / GFI combined, but when I asked at the electrical supply shop they stared at me like I was an alien. Does that exist in the US?
I live in the state of Washington, and they abide by all the codes of the NEC, "National Electrical Code", then we have the WAC rules,"Washington Annotated Code, and the RCW's "Revised Code of Washington" to follow when wiring. The NEC has recently required GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters) and AFCI (Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter breakers to be installed in residences. They also manufacture a combination breaker that has both. Breakers went from abut 5 bucks to 50 bucks each. The Arc Fault breakers have brain that can detect the signature of an arching connection, and will trip. In the beginning there was a bunch of nuisance tripping. An arc from the brushes of a vacuum cleaner would trip the breaker. The type of circuit determines the type of breaker required. All bedrooms and living spaces require Arc Fault breakers. Any receptacle within 5' of water require GFI, are just some of the examples.
I use to use a isolation transformer, between my test equipment and the unit being worked on, so a floating hot would not toast the test equipment.
They are pretty simple devises. Usually just a little box that has wires connected to each of the busses in the panel. If your panel is surface mounted, even easier yet. Glad you had a nice surprise. That is not usually the case when an electrician comes.SteveHGraham wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:11 pm A lady just drove up to my house and installed a whole-house surge protector in 2 minutes. What?
I thought they would have to dig up the yard.
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- neanderman
- Posts: 896
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:15 pm
- Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Re: Electrical wiring in the home shop.
#5 -- That I did not know! Thanks! I'll review what I've done, but I seldom run more than two NM cables directly next to each other.
Ed
LeBlond Dual Drive, 15x30
US-Burke Millrite MVI
Atlas 618
Files, snips and cold chisels
Proud denizen of the former "Machine Tool Capitol of the World"
LeBlond Dual Drive, 15x30
US-Burke Millrite MVI
Atlas 618
Files, snips and cold chisels
Proud denizen of the former "Machine Tool Capitol of the World"
- neanderman
- Posts: 896
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:15 pm
- Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Re: Electrical wiring in the home shop.
I believe all basement outlets require a GFCI?
Regardless, all of mine are.
Regardless, all of mine are.
Ed
LeBlond Dual Drive, 15x30
US-Burke Millrite MVI
Atlas 618
Files, snips and cold chisels
Proud denizen of the former "Machine Tool Capitol of the World"
LeBlond Dual Drive, 15x30
US-Burke Millrite MVI
Atlas 618
Files, snips and cold chisels
Proud denizen of the former "Machine Tool Capitol of the World"
Re: Electrical wiring in the home shop.
GFI are required in areas with concrete floors. Just in case you are running around your shop barefoot.
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- liveaboard
- Posts: 1981
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:40 pm
- Location: southern Portugal
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Re: Electrical wiring in the home shop.
AFCI Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter breakers
Never heard of those; it's always fun to learn something.
Never heard of those; it's always fun to learn something.
-
- Posts: 366
- Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:36 am
- Location: Bohemia, NY
Re: Electrical wiring in the home shop.
"In the USA, most homes have a 200A/240V single phase. Some larger homes have 400A/240V single phase systems. Three phase is usually reserved for industry, but can be had in residential, for a cost."
I can't speak for the rest of the country, but here in NY most homes were built with 100A single phase service or less (older homes that is) I grew up on Long Island , our house built in 1957 (Suffolk county)had a 100 A service. My nerphews house , built in the 90's, again 100A service. My house in Queens, built 1920 ….60A service. When Lilco was running the show on LI and then LIPA, we were denied having 3 phase upgraded to our house. We were told that only industrial property could have 3 Phase, as the localities were afraid people would start running businesses in residential areas. Don't know what the story is now that PSE&G is running things.
I can't speak for the rest of the country, but here in NY most homes were built with 100A single phase service or less (older homes that is) I grew up on Long Island , our house built in 1957 (Suffolk county)had a 100 A service. My nerphews house , built in the 90's, again 100A service. My house in Queens, built 1920 ….60A service. When Lilco was running the show on LI and then LIPA, we were denied having 3 phase upgraded to our house. We were told that only industrial property could have 3 Phase, as the localities were afraid people would start running businesses in residential areas. Don't know what the story is now that PSE&G is running things.
Re: Electrical wiring in the home shop.
Does that mean in a shop with a concrete floor (in-floor heating) every outlet is supposed to be GFCI?
Herman
Just starting an Allen Mogul
renewing a Marie Estelle
renewing a Marie Estelle
Re: Electrical wiring in the home shop.
Hi Everyone, with regards to what is code and what is not, depends on the state, county and city you live in, in the USA. Everyone of them is different. Most State have a minimum code requirement, and then counties and cities, put there enhanced requirements on those.
I live in Washington state, where they are pretty strict.
Concrete floor that have a covering, do not require GFI outlets, but bare ones do. The principle is that concrete is as good as ground, so it you are standing on it, with bare feet and contact a hot wire, you are not going to have a good day.
When protecting outlets, using GFI, only the first outlet in the string needs to be a GFI, the rest, down stream of it should be connected to the load side of the GFI, protecting all the outlets.
I live in Washington state, where they are pretty strict.
Concrete floor that have a covering, do not require GFI outlets, but bare ones do. The principle is that concrete is as good as ground, so it you are standing on it, with bare feet and contact a hot wire, you are not going to have a good day.
When protecting outlets, using GFI, only the first outlet in the string needs to be a GFI, the rest, down stream of it should be connected to the load side of the GFI, protecting all the outlets.
Live for the moment!
Prepare for tomorrow!
Forgive the past!
Prepare for tomorrow!
Forgive the past!
Re: Electrical wiring in the home shop.
When we wired my new shop (in Oregon with concrete floors) we installed one GFI outlet in each circuit.
I have 4 separate 115 Vac circuits for wall power.
RN
I have 4 separate 115 Vac circuits for wall power.
RN
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Re: Electrical wiring in the home shop.
Under the current code GFCI is not required in a shop for 220 outlets, hardwired machines, or dedicated outlets.
I know a number of people who have had bad experiences with the outlets with built in GFCI. One of them had the outlet catch fire.
I have no GFCI and have no plans to install any but if I did I would install GFCI breakers, not GFCI outlets.
I know a number of people who have had bad experiences with the outlets with built in GFCI. One of them had the outlet catch fire.
I have no GFCI and have no plans to install any but if I did I would install GFCI breakers, not GFCI outlets.