Machinist's Level help

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liveaboard
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Re: Machinist's Level help

Post by liveaboard » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:35 pm

45 years ago, in a very rural place, I needed a small allen wrench.
I only knew one person who had some tools, and he had one.
His name was Allen.
He died 15 years ago, but I always think of him when I use a witchamacallet screw, which will always be Allen screws to me!

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Re: Machinist's Level help

Post by BigDumbDinosaur » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:14 pm

Harold_V wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:49 am
shcs
Socket head cap screw

Common terminology in the tool and die shop.

H
I recall SHCS meaning socket-head cap screw from high school shop class—which was 60 years ago. There also was FHSS that got used a lot.
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seal killer
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Re: Machinist's Level help

Post by seal killer » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:52 pm

liveaboard—

That’s a good story.

—Bill
You are what you write.

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Re: Machinist's Level help

Post by Harold_V » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:05 pm

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:14 pm
Harold_V wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:49 am
shcs
Socket head cap screw

Common terminology in the tool and die shop.

H
I recall SHCS meaning socket-head cap screw from high school shop class—which was 60 years ago. There also was FHSS that got used a lot.
Yep! If one works around these things, there are many contractions, used to reduce drafting time and conserve space on drawings. Another that should be known is HHCS (hex head cap screw).

All of these contractions can be troublesome for those who have not been exposed. That's why I try to discourage those who post from using text lingo in their offerings. They may know what they're talking about, but many may not. Speaking (and posting) in clear and concise language is usually the best approach if one hopes to get viable guidance from others. As I said in a different thread, if one who inquires doesn't expend enough effort to make a question clear, why would that individual expect others to waste their valuable time trying to answer vague questions?

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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seal killer
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Re: Machinist's Level help

Post by seal killer » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:16 pm

Harold—

If we had the ability to ‘upvote’ a post I would upvote that one for sure.

—Bill
You are what you write.

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BigDumbDinosaur
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Re: Machinist's Level help

Post by BigDumbDinosaur » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:05 pm

Harold_V wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:05 pm
Speaking (and posting) in clear and concise language is usually the best approach if one hopes to get viable guidance from others.

I recall we had a topic going on that a couple of years ago and there were some who asserted that expecting proper English and conciseness in posts was elitist. Yet, as you note, if a question is not written in an unambiguous way it becomes hard to offer a reasonable answer. Mind-reading just doesn't work well in cyberspace. :D
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Re: Machinist's Level help

Post by pete » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:26 am

Since I sort of started this by using shcs I'll admit it wasn't the best choice, but it was correct for a group here. On maybe The Ladies Home Journal forum if there is such a thing I would have used the more common Allen head cap screw probably. But your all correct, proper communication is based on generally accepted and agreed to terms for any object. I ran into this on YT not 2 days ago. The video poster called them threaded "inserts" when what he meant was he was using standard and very common transfer screws. Threaded inserts would be something entirely different. That caused further confusion in the comments about where to even buy what was shown in the video. Even worse on some YT videos is today's habitual by some "this guy or that guy" when it's a non human, non gender specific and metallic part that does have a real name. Drives me nuts to be honest. I don't fault entry level people here when there trying to describe something new to them, I do expect them to learn and at least help as best they can as the questions get more detailed if they choose to stick around. Afaik Mitutoyo or Starrett aren't yet making any crystal balls so I'd agree, that mind reading is pretty tough on any forum. Worse is asking a vague semi complex question as a first post and then it seems never coming back or at least answering if the answers helped or not.

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Re: Machinist's Level help

Post by Harold_V » Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:48 am

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:05 pm
Harold_V wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:05 pm
Speaking (and posting) in clear and concise language is usually the best approach if one hopes to get viable guidance from others.

I recall we had a topic going on that a couple of years ago and there were some who asserted that expecting proper English and conciseness in posts was elitist. Yet, as you note, if a question is not written in an unambiguous way it becomes hard to offer a reasonable answer. Mind-reading just doesn't work well in cyberspace. :D
I somewhat recall that situation. If memory serves, it has the tendency to discourage some folks from posting, and that was not the intention. The intention was to encourage folks to not become complacent, to not stop using punctuation, to not stop using proper form, in general, which has become commonplace with those who text. Readers should do the best they can in posting--and do that by not leaving out proper terms when they are known.

Many of us here do not have an extended education, and I'm one of them. I struggled to graduate high school (my fault) and did not pursue further education, with a couple minor examples (a little chemistry and advanced math). I often slept through classes. Still, I do my best. Sure, I make mistakes, but one of them isn't using shortcut language so I can save a little time when posting. I try (and occasionally fail) to say things in words that can be understood by those who do not have a mechanical background. That's the point I'm trying to drive home. Some like to post as if they're texting a friend---using every damned shortcut in the book, something I find highly offensive.

As I said, one wants help from those who may have the needed knowledge, but it's not important enough to take a few minutes longer in composing a post that doesn't confuse? A few seconds of time is saved using ever dodge in the book, adding additional time to those who read, trying to understand what message is intended to be conveyed? As if that's not enough, one often wishes to hide one's identity, not even disclosing one's general area, so others who are close might be more inclined to offer guidance? All that, and one then expects others to spend their time trying to help someone who wishes to remain anonymous and not put forth any effort?

My response to that is slowly becoming one of no response. I'm too busy to waste my time crossing oceans for folks who aren't willing to step across a puddle for me. Besides, it's just plain old common decency to show enough respect to others from whom one is asking for help.

Do remember---there is no mandate to use proper language on this board, nor is there a mandate to disclose one's location. My advice is to not expect anything more than one is willing to extend. (Note that there is a mandate to NOT use vulgar language).

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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seal killer
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Re: Machinist's Level help

Post by seal killer » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:39 am

Harold and All—

Re: “. . . it's just plain old common decency . . .”

Amen.

—Bill
You are what you write.

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Bill Shields
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Re: Machinist's Level help

Post by Bill Shields » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:26 pm

Ok. Allen and SHCS and hexalobular and torx... and Phillip's head are all understandable

Where did "cheese head screw" come from...except maybe Wisconsin?
Too many things going on to bother listing them.

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Re: Machinist's Level help

Post by pete » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:11 pm

Mostly I think due to it's shape. Large diameter head verses the shank and threaded diameter. So the screw heads sort of resemble a large wheel of cheese. They probably just came up with that name as a way to identify it as having a much larger head style than the more normal screw heads have. I can't recall any reference to cheese head screws that aren't the standard slotted head type. But doubtful from a Wisconsin origin since that's there usual name in my UK written books. The cheese head name and use probably even pre dates Wisconsin's formation as a state. There more than common on older guns, instruments, machine tools and for sure on Ornamental Turning lathes that are well over 200 yrs old. I'd guess the slotted cheese head screws were used a whole lot less starting around the late 1940's- maybe mid 1950's? South Bend is one that I know of that were still using them around that time period. Today I think we'd be more likely to just use Flat Head Cap Screws. FHCS's :-) since the cheese heads were designed to also help in keeping parts aligned or from shifting around and those FHCS's are a much later invention that do the job even better.

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Bill Shields
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Re: Machinist's Level help

Post by Bill Shields » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:51 pm

Especially if you are a vegan
Too many things going on to bother listing them.

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