What kind of tap set???

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shootnride
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Re: What kind of tap set???

Post by shootnride » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:07 pm

I have no personal experience with this supplier, but I know a couple of guys that have purchased quite a bit from them and have been satisfied with their products.

https://drillsandcutters.com

Ted
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B Mann
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Re: What kind of tap set???

Post by B Mann » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:18 pm

I have not been to many auctions... Tend to get caught up in the frenzy. But you got quite a killer deal!!!

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BadDog
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Re: What kind of tap set???

Post by BadDog » Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:24 pm

Yeah, many/most auctions I get/got very little. Sometimes it's a "rack and contents" or the like where I want the rack, but the contents are the real value for me, often times for very low bids, sometimes because they tend to go later. The main thing is (as common wisdom), know what you are willing to pay, and don't let yourself go beyond. Sometimes, quite often in recent years, I go home with nothing at all. Often the only thing I walk away with is stunned confusion over what some will pay for that stuff.

But the best auctions I ever saw, and hope to never see again, were back in the mid(?) 'aughts when so many shops were going on the block. The taps, a Huot fractional index full of premium bits, and IIRC, my small optical comparator were all for peanuts at a small shop auction in S Phx that somehow got booked in the same time slot against a MUCH bigger auction in Mesa (IIRC). Me and a dozen or so guys who somehow didn't know about the bigger auction were the only ones that showed up. It was painful being that the (ex) owner's sons were there. They even started bidding on a few things trying to run up the price, bad etiquette or worse, but I couldn't really blame them. One of them wound up with the drill index (or was it the taps? I think they both went for about $30 each, $10 I think for the comparator, crazy) by accident. He flat didn't want it, but said he ordered and KNEW what the cost of the contents of even one slot cost, and couldn't let it go that cheap. I wound up giving him his bid for what he out-bid me at. Maybe it was $35 max, but still.

I was pretty flush with cash at that time, and in a rare convergence, had free time to lurk the auctions, and make connections (and learned A LOT). In that time I got some of the key bargains that have allowed me to build my shop with capabilities I have. I'm far too cheap with insufficient justification to have acquired what I have at any time before or since...
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SteveM
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Re: What kind of tap set???

Post by SteveM » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:38 pm

Keep in mind that the money saved by buying a cheap tap is more than made up for in the cost and time of removing a broken tap.

The spiral point tap is recognized by the cutting lip at an angle so the chip curls forward.

This is a spiral point:
SpiralPoint.jpeg
This is a spiral flute:
SpiralFlute.jpeg
Spiral flute taps eject the taps up, but as you can see from looking at them, they can be more fragile.

Like tornitore45 said, you need either a thru hole or enough room at the bottom of the hole. When you get to where you are running out of room for the chips, you will hear / feel the crunching of the chips, then you can back out and blow the chips out, rinse and repeat.

When you are using a spiral point tap, you don't have to keep advancing the tap and backing off to break the chip, as the chip is not building up in the flutes.

Steve

thunderskunk
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Re: What kind of tap set???

Post by thunderskunk » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:32 pm

I was young and dumb and bought “the most expensive tap and die set at the dollar store” as they say. I figured if I’m going to buy cheap taps, I’d better have every single one. Probably $200 from a car parts store. Every one of those was scrap. I couldn’t chase threads in soft materials with the dang things. The process went: realize I needed said tap or die, try said tap or die, make a bad thread or break said tap or die then buy the good stuff from MSC/Maritool as I didn’t have time to find something cheaper elsewhere.

After a few months of that I threw it out; even the tap handles and die holder were junk. I still have a few for removing stuck casings from press dies, but that’s about it. I’ll echo what everyone else is saying; buy as you need. Your money would be better spent on a tap stand, or materials to build one.
"We'll cross that bridge once we realize nobody ever built one."

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BigDumbDinosaur
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Re: What kind of tap set???

Post by BigDumbDinosaur » Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:00 pm

SteveM wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:38 pm
Keep in mind that the money saved by buying a cheap tap is more than made up for in the cost and time of removing a broken tap.

Amen to that. There is a reason cheap tools are cheap. Long ago, I invested in high-quality, USA-made taps and dies. I have never regretted it.

The spiral point tap is recognized by the cutting lip at an angle so the chip curls forward.

Such a tap is also referred to as a "gun tap." The name has nothing to do with firearms or gunsmithing.

Spiral flute taps...can be more fragile.

In that regard, all spiral flute taps are not created equal. The tap in the below photo (a Morse product, I think) has a more substantial body to it, with less total thread engagement into the work than the cheaper ones. That feature helps to reduce friction, which of course means less torque has to be applied, with a lower risk of breakage. It also eases the ejection of the chips.

tapping_beam_locator.jpg
Blind-tapping a fixture block

I usually use a gun tap to do blind holes, but went with a spiral flute tap for this project because the parts being tapped represented a substantial investment in both material and machining time. I figured I was less likely to have a "situation" by using the more costly spiral flute tap.

Incidentally, my go-to lubricant for tapping holes in aluminum is a 20/80 mixture of lard-type cutting oil and mineral spirits.

When you are using a spiral point tap, you don't have to keep advancing the tap and backing off to break the chip, as the chip is not building up in the flutes.

In fact, constantly reversing a gun tap is not recommended. Many, many years ago, when all this stuff was new to me, I was taught that constantly reversing a gun tap would result in a sloppier thread fit. Experience has proved that to be the case, especially in softer materials.
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SteveM
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Re: What kind of tap set???

Post by SteveM » Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:27 pm

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:00 pm
I'm a caterwauling curmudgeon.
That's your superpower!

B Mann
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Re: What kind of tap set???

Post by B Mann » Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:23 pm

Well with 2 kinds of threads going. Looking for a bit set and tap set. The consensus is buy what you need. This set seems to fit both worlds at a fair price. Looking it over it is a 3 flute, plug tap set. 2 flutes was what I was thinking of, but 3 is not too bad either. I am thinking I do not need many letter and number bits except to match with taps. They do offer a metric set too. Unless someone can point me to another combo set.

I might pick up a good 64 pc bit set in the future too.

What do you think of this set?

https://www.amazon.com/Viking-Norseman- ... 0036YY81E/

Thanks for everyone's help!!

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BigDumbDinosaur
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Re: What kind of tap set???

Post by BigDumbDinosaur » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:56 pm

B Mann wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:23 pm
Well with 2 kinds of threads going. Looking for a bit set and tap set. The consensus is buy what you need. This set seems to fit both worlds at a fair price. Looking it over it is a 3 flute, plug tap set. 2 flutes was what I was thinking of, but 3 is not too bad either. I am thinking I do not need many letter and number bits except to match with taps. They do offer a metric set too. Unless someone can point me to another combo set.

I might pick up a good 64 pc bit set in the future too.

What do you think of this set?

https://www.amazon.com/Viking-Norseman- ... 0036YY81E/

Thanks for everyone's help!!
They look like quality drills and taps (BTW, drills are not "bits"—in a hole-making context, a bit is a tool used in a brace to bore a hole into wood) and the reviews are positive. Eventually, you will want a wider range of sizes, but this should get you started.
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rkcarguy
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Re: What kind of tap set???

Post by rkcarguy » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:37 am

I'm going to go against the "grain" a bit here. There is 1 HSS tap set at horrible freight that is a good set. I think it goes from #4-40 up to 1/2" and metric to 12mm, and even has a few pipe taps and some dies in it for around $40. The larger taps are 3 and four flute, and I wouldn't power tap with them, but the smaller sizes are all 2-3 flute with nice tapered tips and work nicely. I've carefully power tapped hundreds of #4-40's with my cordless drill. Here is the set:
https://www.harborfreight.com/sae-metri ... 60366.html
I then order only the sizes I use a lot and want to power tap with, in a high quality HSS brand from MSC or look for new old stock taps on Ebay. Those Vermont taps are powdered steel junk, they are only good for cleaning up threads in existing holes, or grind the end off and use them for cutting the final few threads in the bottom of a blind hole (in my opinion).
Knock on wood, but I have yet to break one of them. I did hit an inclusion when power tapping a bunch of 3/8-24 and ruined the threads on my high end TICN coated tap but it didn't break. :oops:
Taps can be sharpened in a pinch, I was tapping some #6's in titanium and was only getting a couple holes before the tap was dulled, so I carefully went down the leading edges of the flutes with a diamond grinding bit in my Dremel to get a fresh edge again....for a couple more holes.

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BigDumbDinosaur
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Re: What kind of tap set???

Post by BigDumbDinosaur » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:46 am

rkcarguy wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:37 am
There is 1 HSS tap set at horrible freight that is a good set...
This photo isn't real clear, but they all look to be plug hand taps, which are not suitable for power-tapping. Caveat emptor! You only get what you pay for.
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B Mann
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Re: What kind of tap set???

Post by B Mann » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:48 pm

BigDumbDinosaur wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:56 pm
They look like quality drills and taps (BTW, drills are not "bits"—in a hole-making context, a bit is a tool used in a brace to bore a hole into wood) and the reviews are positive. Eventually, you will want a wider range of sizes, but this should get you started.
I am learning, mostly self taught. I do have problems with terms once in a while. I have to get away from, drill motors are not drills. :oops:

Thanks for the ideas.

I have a HF like quality set. Several have been updated to better quality. When you are working on a vehicle and something goes bad it is not a good time to shop for a single bit. Mostly anything quality sold around here is M-F 8-4, I do follow that cheap bits are expensive.

Also I found that a beat up tap that I got from who knows where, cut a LOT better than the shiny new cheapo tap.

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