Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

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timotb
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Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

Post by timotb »

Has anyone else noticed that most new gas grills built are built like crap? They are all junk and don't last.

I'm looking for someone or a small team interested in designing and building better-built gas grills from commonly available parts. Start with a simple 3 burner, 25x19 cooktop, all stainless steel, gas or propane. I want to defeat mediocracy, build and maybe sell them. See www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbJ63mLRWLc to understand the general concept I'm aiming for.

My name is Tim and my background is in homebuilding and aviation. I live in NorthEast Ohio. Currently, I'm mostly retired but stlll have ambition. The closest I got to being a machinist is building an RV7 aircraft from a kit. It still flys today. If I was 18 again, my career path would be in machine manufacturing.

If you're interested or have ideas or comments, lets hear them!
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Bill Shields
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Re: Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

Post by Bill Shields »

But if you build it at the $$$'....will it sell?

I agree that grills are crappy...but that is what people are willing to purchase.

After all...it is less $ and easier to toss it out than clean it.
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timotb
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Re: Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

Post by timotb »

There are a few people out there, like me, that will pay $$$$ for a lifetime of quality. Never have to replace a part or a burner. No cheap wheels. No cheap knobs or valves. Most of the parts can be found a Lowes, except for the stainless steel sheets and tubing. It will never rust or fall apart. Every time you buy new you have to assemble it. Never have to be frustrated with assembly again. It will be sold one at a time and shipped anywhere in the country or preferably picked up. I have a marketing plan in mind. My target sales price is $2K. Im going to be customer number 1. I need a fabricator and a welder and press operator more so than a precision machinist.
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Harold_V
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Re: Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

Post by Harold_V »

timotb wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:20 pm It will never rust or fall apart.
Unfortunately, that's simply not true unless you have some way of eliminating chlorides from the grill. So long as there's seasoning, you can expect both to happen. It's just a matter of degree.

H
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Steggy
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Re: Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

Post by Steggy »

timotb wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:20 pmMost of the parts can be found a Lowes, except for the stainless steel sheets and tubing. It will never rust or fall apart.

In addition to the effects of chlorides in seasonings, as mentioned by Harold, stainless steel can and usually will corrode due to the formation of chromium carbides in the fusion zone of the welds. An L-series stainless alloy has very little carbon in its metallurgy and would be the preferred material, e.g., 304L or 316L, driving up cost and in the case of 316L, making bending and stamping more difficult. Despite that, the chromium carbide problem is not entirely avoided with those steels. If you are truly after a lifetime product you will have to use other fabrication methods.

Like you, I prefer to pay more to get more, but that isn't the kind of retail market we have in the USA any more. Too many consumers are unwilling to pay a premium for any product, which is one of the reasons why Chinese-made crud has proliferated.
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Mr Ron
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Re: Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

Post by Mr Ron »

It's the heating/cooling process that causes SS to eventually fail. Eliminate one and it will last forever.
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi
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Bill Shields
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Re: Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

Post by Bill Shields »

So ..if we take a BBQ and fill it with ice made from distilled water -> and use it to hold cold beer....it will last forever?

How cool is that?
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Wolfgang
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Re: Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

Post by Wolfgang »

Make it from titanium and it should last a life time, I think.
Stainless steel metallurgy, especially corrosion resistance of the austenitic alloys, is a complicated business.
In another life and another place I used type 304L austenitic stainless steel by the 100's of tons. No exaggeration! And cleanliness, freedom of iron and chlorides was our religion.

And in a barbecue, cleanliness is next to impossible, especially on the drip tray and such.

10 Years ago my wife-to-be purchased an inexpensive gas barbecue that now needs replacement.
I think I'll live with such cost/benefit for this item.
In my opinion, the least costly method of improving life expectancy is to make the burner tube, its cover heat shield, and the drip tray, of heavier gauge material.

The burner tube may benefit being made of stainless steel, the rest of it, not so much.

Come and think of it, a good thick chrome plate would probably be just as beneficial, and cheaper to boot.
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Steggy
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Re: Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

Post by Steggy »

Mr Ron wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:26 pm It's the heating/cooling process that causes SS to eventually fail. Eliminate one and it will last forever.

Only if you repeatedly cross over the transformation temperature. Most 300-series alloys will tolerate 800 degrees F.
Last edited by Steggy on Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Steggy
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Re: Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

Post by Steggy »

Wolfgang wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:30 pm10 Years ago my wife-to-be purchased an inexpensive gas barbecue that now needs replacement. I think I'll live with such cost/benefit for this item.

My Weber E310 Genesis is 11 years old and works like new. It was fairly expensive, but hardly top-of-the-line. If it makes it 20 years (assuming I last for another nine years, which is questionable right now), I'll feel as though I got my money’s worth from it.

Incidentally, my grill has stainless burner tubes and “flavorizer” bars, the latter a key component in making the food come out just right. At the start of each grilling season, I remove the flavorizer bars and burners and thoroughly clean them. I use spray carburetor cleaner on the burners and if necessary, toothpicks to completely clear the gas ports. After doing that, the flame is a very pale violet (how it appears to me—I've got a form of color-blindness called tritanomaly) and uniform over the burner length. I put the flavorizer bars in the dishwasher and clean ’em good. That done, the grill is ready for a summer’s worth of use. My drunken chicken recipe is especially famous. :D
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Bill Shields
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Re: Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

Post by Bill Shields »

Carb cleaner and steaks...you...

Gotta be a carcinogenic combination in there somewhere...esp if you are in California and the basic stainless is carcinogenic just to handle.
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liveaboard
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Re: Designing and Building a better built outdoor gas grill

Post by liveaboard »

When I worked in a garage we used to have barbeque lunch in summer.

A splash of paint thinner would get the coals going in a minute.
Another time, I hit the coals with a cutting torch. Nothing like a stream of oxygen to light 'em up without additional chemicals.

I believe the charcoal itself is so carcinogenic that a bit of carb cleaner would make no appreciable difference.
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