Shars 4" Kurt clone
Shars 4" Kurt clone
Everybody says the best vise is a Kurt. Expensive little devil, hard to justify a new one for a home hobby shop. Used 6" Kurts are fairly common, the problem is a) not up here they're not b) shipping is a killer and c) a 6" is just too big for my machine, but 4" used Kurts seem to be pretty rare.
After 2 years of no luck and making due, I decided enough is enough. I have been reasonably impressed with the Shars' stuff I've bought so far and their vise looked a little more finished in the pictures than most of the other clones. They actually publish specs -- basically the same +/- 0.0005" tolerances I've seen for the D40 -- and they offer a lifetime warranty. So I bit the bullet and it arrived the other day.
It came with an inspection record, showing the claimed dimensions:
Tolerance Actual
Bed height 2.25" +/- 0.0005" +0.0002"
Parallelism bed to base 0.0005" 0.0002"
Perpendicularity fixed jaw to bed 0.0005" 0.0003"
Parallelism fixed jaw to keyway +/- 0.0005" +0.0001"
As near as I could tell, those are accurate, but we're really pushing the limit of what I have the capability of measuring. My metric Mitutoyu DTI is graduated in .01mm increments (almost 0.0004").
The 1/2" keys don't fit my 12mm table slots, but that's not really Shars' fault and it was short work to make some custom keys 1/2" on one side and 12mm on the other. After 2 years, I have mastered the skill of making a rectangle.
The real disappointment was the dang movable jaw lifted ever so slightly on the final clamp. Not much, but enough to loosen the parallel under a 123 block clamped centre of the jaws. About 0.0002" to the best of my ability to measure. A light tap with a hammer when half-tightened would deal with it. But it shouldn't be lifting, dammit!
So I took it apart. And this is what I found:
Why would anyone use a hardened insert on one side, and PAINT on the other???
So I cleaned off the layer of paint and then polished the surface with a diamond hone just to be thorough:
I gave it a smear of way oil and reassembled everything. Holding my breath, I tried again. The parallel stayed snug! It could be pulled out, but took a tight grip on the oily metal. For fun, I measured the required force:
A close eye on the DTI shows it actually lifts slightly (about half a tick -- 0.0002") as it starts to clamp then drops down ever so slightly tighter than 0 when clamped tight. Just the width of the needle; I think that's less than 0.0001":
Now I'm happy with it.
After 2 years of no luck and making due, I decided enough is enough. I have been reasonably impressed with the Shars' stuff I've bought so far and their vise looked a little more finished in the pictures than most of the other clones. They actually publish specs -- basically the same +/- 0.0005" tolerances I've seen for the D40 -- and they offer a lifetime warranty. So I bit the bullet and it arrived the other day.
It came with an inspection record, showing the claimed dimensions:
Tolerance Actual
Bed height 2.25" +/- 0.0005" +0.0002"
Parallelism bed to base 0.0005" 0.0002"
Perpendicularity fixed jaw to bed 0.0005" 0.0003"
Parallelism fixed jaw to keyway +/- 0.0005" +0.0001"
As near as I could tell, those are accurate, but we're really pushing the limit of what I have the capability of measuring. My metric Mitutoyu DTI is graduated in .01mm increments (almost 0.0004").
The 1/2" keys don't fit my 12mm table slots, but that's not really Shars' fault and it was short work to make some custom keys 1/2" on one side and 12mm on the other. After 2 years, I have mastered the skill of making a rectangle.
The real disappointment was the dang movable jaw lifted ever so slightly on the final clamp. Not much, but enough to loosen the parallel under a 123 block clamped centre of the jaws. About 0.0002" to the best of my ability to measure. A light tap with a hammer when half-tightened would deal with it. But it shouldn't be lifting, dammit!
So I took it apart. And this is what I found:
Why would anyone use a hardened insert on one side, and PAINT on the other???
So I cleaned off the layer of paint and then polished the surface with a diamond hone just to be thorough:
I gave it a smear of way oil and reassembled everything. Holding my breath, I tried again. The parallel stayed snug! It could be pulled out, but took a tight grip on the oily metal. For fun, I measured the required force:
A close eye on the DTI shows it actually lifts slightly (about half a tick -- 0.0002") as it starts to clamp then drops down ever so slightly tighter than 0 when clamped tight. Just the width of the needle; I think that's less than 0.0001":
Now I'm happy with it.
Re: Shars 4" Kurt clone
Thanks for the write up.
Is this the vise?
http://www.shars.com/products/view/8138 ... _00004quot
Steve
Is this the vise?
http://www.shars.com/products/view/8138 ... _00004quot
Steve
Re: Shars 4" Kurt clone
Yes, although I see I paid about $10 less through their eBay outlet. Shipping was around $23 to my buddy in the US (would have been $113 plus brokerage to Canada!)
- Mid Day Machining
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- Location: San Clemente, CA
Re: Shars 4" Kurt clone
I considered the Shars vise, but I ended up with a Glacern 440. I checked it out and they guarantee .0004 parallel. It is about .0002 or less.
Up till then I had been using a cheap Chinese import that was adequate for what I had done up to then. Then I got a job that was too big for the vise and I destroyed the vise and scrapped a $50.00 part when the back jaw broke out.
Oh well, it lasted for 2 1/2 years. I guess you could say I got my money's worth.
Up till then I had been using a cheap Chinese import that was adequate for what I had done up to then. Then I got a job that was too big for the vise and I destroyed the vise and scrapped a $50.00 part when the back jaw broke out.
Oh well, it lasted for 2 1/2 years. I guess you could say I got my money's worth.
You can buy good parts, or you can buy cheap parts, but you can't buy good cheap parts.
Re: Shars 4" Kurt clone
Here's the Glacern:Mid Day Machining wrote:I considered the Shars vise, but I ended up with a Glacern 440. I checked it out and they guarantee .0004 parallel. It is about .0002 or less.
http://www.glacern.com/gsv_440
At $279, a bargain compared to even a used 4" Kurt (if you could find one anyway).
Steve
Re: Shars 4" Kurt clone
My Lord, that's a lot of t-slots! And the table dwarfs the vice and the other vice behind it too. What sort of behemoth do you have this mounted on, anyway?
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Re: Shars 4" Kurt clone
nice looking vice, but it is a file photo from the web
- Mid Day Machining
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- Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:58 am
- Location: San Clemente, CA
Re: Shars 4" Kurt clone
The Glacern vise looks that good sitting on the machine too. But it's brand new now. Let's see what it looks like a year from now.hammermill wrote:nice looking vice, but it is a file photo from the web
You can buy good parts, or you can buy cheap parts, but you can't buy good cheap parts.
Re: Shars 4" Kurt clone
May it look oily and covered in chips!Mid Day Machining wrote:Let's see what it looks like a year from now.
Re: Shars 4" Kurt clone
Hear, hear! Here's to oil and chips!Torch wrote:May it look oily and covered in chips!Mid Day Machining wrote:Let's see what it looks like a year from now.
Steve
- Mid Day Machining
- Posts: 418
- Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:58 am
- Location: San Clemente, CA
Re: Shars 4" Kurt clone
Chips on the floor makes for money in the bank.SteveM wrote:Hear, hear! Here's to oil and chips!Torch wrote:May it look oily and covered in chips!Mid Day Machining wrote:Let's see what it looks like a year from now.
Steve
You can buy good parts, or you can buy cheap parts, but you can't buy good cheap parts.