China vs Taiwan quality

Topics include, Machine Tools & Tooling, Precision Measuring, Materials and their Properties, Electrical discussions related to machine tools, setups, fixtures and jigs and other general discussion related to amateur machining.

Moderators: GlennW, Harold_V

Post Reply
Mr Ron
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:36 pm
Location: Vancleave, Mississippi

China vs Taiwan quality

Post by Mr Ron »

Any opinions on the difference in quality if any between tools made in Taiwan and China. I have a vertical mill made in Taiwan (Select OB made in 1982). It seems to be pretty robust, but can't find a comparison with a Chinese made mill.
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi
User avatar
seal killer
Posts: 4696
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:58 pm
Location: Ozark Mountains

Re: China vs Taiwan quality

Post by seal killer »

Mr Ron--

Stuff made in Taiwan is reputedly higher quality than Chinese-made products. (I agree.) I have a Chinese mill, lathe and horizontal saw. I also have a Taiwanese horizontal saw. I bought the latter because the former was of lower quality and I simply wanted a bigger saw.

The Chinese mill is fine for my needs, the Chinese lathe is great and the Taiwanese saw is even better.

--Bill
You are what you write.
Michael_Moore
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:13 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: China vs Taiwan quality

Post by Michael_Moore »

Ron, my original 10x24 bench lathe was a Select that I bought new about 1981, and it is serving a friend as his first lathe today. It seemed very much more "light industrial" than hobbyist, and at $1700 or so back then it isn't surprising. To get something comparable in the small lathes it looks like you need to go to a 12" unit.

Remember when "Jap crap" was a common phrase? Can you reconcile that with Mori Seiki, Mazak etc? Can you compare Atlas with Hardinge?

The Taiwanese mfgrs, just like mfgrs in the US, Europe, Asia or anywhere else, can make complete crap or nearly perfect stuff. Taiwan tools may tend to be more even on the distribution towards the "nice" end of the scale. Some of the mainland Chinese stuff is perfectly serviceable with nice finishes and heat treat, and other is junk. The problem is with guessing what you'll get when you open the box. If the importer held out for "no crap" and did their own inspection then you get lucky and get good tools at a reasonable price. If they instead went looking for "what ya got that is cheap?" then you may be disappointed.

I've got some Chinese copy Multifix tool holders. I loaned some to a friend (along with a spare Multifix tool post and Multifix tool holders that he bought from me) and he found the Chinese stuff seemed to be just as good as the Multifix. Does that happen every time? Probably not.

Generally, "your mileage may vary" seems to be the bottom line. Find an importer who will stand behind the product when/if you get a dud. Hopefully they will be weeding out the bad stuff before it gets sent to customers.

cheers,
Michael
revrnd
Posts: 366
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:38 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: China vs Taiwan quality

Post by revrnd »

I'm no machine tool expert but have been around tool room sized tools since '81. In 2010 when I started looking around for tools I checked out the Busy Bee equipment. IMO, some of it looked "rough".

I then saw some Modern brand tools which are sold out of 6 locations across Canada. Their stuff looked closer to what I was used to seeing @ work. The only problem is they really didn't have a "stock" catalog. Whatever they decided to bring over was on their website.

I got the line on the King tools thru 1 of the carpenters that built my shop/garage building. Their stuff looked better than the Busy Bee equipment. I showed the available equipment and he seemed impressed.
User avatar
SteveHGraham
Posts: 7788
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Florida

Re: China vs Taiwan quality

Post by SteveHGraham »

China gets better and better all the time. Capitalism is a wonderful stimulant. I've bought Ridgid power tools that were set up so well at the factory, I couldn't improve them.

I could say why China is kicking our rear end, but it's against forum rules.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
Mr Ron
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:36 pm
Location: Vancleave, Mississippi

Re: China vs Taiwan quality

Post by Mr Ron »

I think I have come to the bottom line when it comes to quality of a tool made in Taiwan, China or Japan. All three countries are capable of building quality machines. The difference between the three countries is the cost of labor. India, Korea, Indonesia and other far east countries also have capability and it's just a matter of time before they too will become competitors. I'm not talking price competition, but quality competition. I think the bottom line is price. A Chinese made lathe may be as good as one made in Taiwan or Japan, but due to the cost of labor, the Chinese one will be cheaper in cost. As democratic principals raise the standard of living in China and other far east countries, high quality production will be the norm. We have priced ourselves out of the market for high quality machine tools. Germany is next to go. We complain because we can't afford high quality tools and blame China and others for what they can provide. The bottom line is and has always been "you get what you pay for". If you want the best, be prepared to pay the price. The industry is now global in nature. Parts from all around the globe now reside in the highest quality machine tools, regardless of where there are made. It is the same as with the automotive world; parts from vendors world wide go into the cars we drive. In America, almost nothing is 100% American made and this is also true for products made anywhere else in the world. We are in a universal world where boundaries are fading.
Mr.Ron from South Mississippi
User avatar
SteveHGraham
Posts: 7788
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Florida

Re: China vs Taiwan quality

Post by SteveHGraham »

If I had had to pay $30,000 for a US lathe (if one exists) and $19,000 for a US mill, my hobby would be tiddlywinks. Or I'd be using ancient junk and praying for little bits of tooling to become available on the used market for prices I could pay. I ended up paying a lot, but it was way less than US prices, and I got two DROs plus a lot of good tooling. My mill seems to be of good quality. The lathe is prettier, but I can't say it works better.

I will never get over the crappy experience I had with my Clausing lathe. Accessories were as expensive as pearls, when I could find them. When my Eisen rolled in, it came with two beautiful rests, tool holders, and a DRO, and I got a huge faceplate for a very reasonable price. Bought myself a wonderful Gator adjustable chuck, plus a 4-jaw, and I was in business.

The PM crowd thinks the choice is Asian v. Murkin, but that's crazy. It's new v. old. Very few hobbyists would buy American machines new, if there were no Asian machines.

Sorry for the union guys who ended up working at Kwikie Mart, but like my mom the realtor always said, "If it doesn't sell, the price is too high." It could be worse. Stockbrokers used to get away with charging hundreds or thousands per trade. Think how it stings, losing a gig like that to ETrade.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.
Post Reply