Bought a Hardinge Sjogren No2 D1-4

All discussion about lathes including but not limited to: South Bend, Hardinge, Logan, Monarch, Clausing and other HSM lathes, including imports

Moderators: Harold_V, GlennW

LIALLEGHENY
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Bohemia, NY

Re: Bought a Hardinge Sjogren No2 D1-4

Post by LIALLEGHENY » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:21 pm

I have a Sjogren 3J collet chuck that came with my Leblond. Interesting in that it was apparently supplied new with the lathe when built and has the machines serial number on it. Only used it once and didn't really care for it. When I got the lathe 20 some years ago, I had to regrind the spindle nose (L1 taper) as the prior owner never cleaned the chips before changing chucks and damage the spindle taper. Now I have to play around ( maybe grind) the adaptor of the collet chuck as it has quite a bit of error. Never at a loss of things to do!

Nyle

Harold_V
Posts: 18801
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Bought a Hardinge Sjogren No2 D1-4

Post by Harold_V » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:23 pm

LIALLEGHENY wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:21 pm
Only used it once and didn't really care for it.
Any particular reason why?
I started in the shop in '57, and they were a part of most of the lathes at the facility. The only feature I didn't like about them was that most of them had the aluminum handwheel, which I found to be rather difficult to use. Those with rubber were much better, and I really liked the ability to grip pieces larger than 1-1/8" diameter.
Now I have to play around ( maybe grind) the adaptor of the collet chuck as it has quite a bit of error.
That could prove to be a bit of a challenge, depending on the amount you had to remove from the spindle when it was reground. What alterations were required for you to be able to mount chucks after you reground the spindle? That surely caused them to mount deeper on the taper. Was there a problem with the retaining nut bottoming out?

I'm real partial to the D spindles, having used both the L and D extensively.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Harold_V
Posts: 18801
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Bought a Hardinge Sjogren No2 D1-4

Post by Harold_V » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:30 pm

jscarmozza wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:22 am
I checked my spindle and it runs true, it appears to be the chuck that has the issue. If I remove the 4 socket head screws from the work side of the chuck, will I be able to index it around to reduce the runout?
I don't know. I would think that the assembly is pinned, so it can't move, but I could be wrong, and for good reason. I'm having a little trouble with the amount of runout you reported, so it may well be that they are intended to be adjusted, then locked in place, with yours having been disturbed.

So far as I know, there's no springs involved, so removing the bolts shouldn't create any issues with lost parts. I'd do so over a pan, if possible, to make sure there's no surprises.

If you experiment, I'd certainly appreciate hearing what you discover. I've never attempted to dismantle mine.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

LIALLEGHENY
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Bohemia, NY

Re: Bought a Hardinge Sjogren No2 D1-4

Post by LIALLEGHENY » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:56 pm

Harold, I didn't like the amount I had to crank the handwheel to both tighten and loosen the collets. Lot of wasted time when doing semi production type work....would much rather have a lever operated drawbar set up. Granted you loose the ability to run larger stock when you have a drawtube, but I bought a good set tru , 6 jaw chuck that took care of that problem.

Fortunately I didn't have to do any other alterations after grinding the spindle, and had no issues with the retaining nut bottoming out. It was all very simple and straight forward.

I'd much rather have a D spindle on the Leblond....but it wasn't until Makino got involved with leblond that they started using the D spindle and larger through spindle bores.

Nyle

jscarmozza
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:09 pm

Re: Bought a Hardinge Sjogren No2 D1-4

Post by jscarmozza » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:04 pm

Removing the 4 socket screws didn't loosen anything enough to move it...I chicken out and put the screws back in and tightened them up. I checked everything and recleaned to make sure there were no chips, took a fine file to the seating face and made sure there were no burrs on the chuck, and lastly used a scotch-brite pad to buff the collet seat inside the spindle. The total runout is now two thousandths, not much of an improvement. Any trick as to how the chuck comes apart?

LIALLEGHENY
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Bohemia, NY

Re: Bought a Hardinge Sjogren No2 D1-4

Post by LIALLEGHENY » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:17 pm

jscarmozza, the 4 bolts you had removed, do they come from the front face to the back? On my collet chuck there are 4 bolts that come through the front face to the back threading into the L-1 back plate. Once the back plate is removed there are 4 screws that hold the collet chuck together. My backplate is precision ground to fit into the back of the collet chuck, the OD being a snug fit, and the face appears to be blanchard ground. In my case at least, the adaptor plate is what I believe is accounting for my runout and the face needs to be reground....not sure if your D1-4 mount separates or is integral to the chuck. Can you post a picture?

Nyle

jscarmozza
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:09 pm

Re: Bought a Hardinge Sjogren No2 D1-4

Post by jscarmozza » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:20 am

Attached are front and back photos of my collet chuck. Yesterday I removed the four socket screws from the front of the chuck and gave it a few light taps with a lead hammer but nothing loosened up so I put the screws back and tightened them up. Any insight into how this thing comes apart would be appreciated, maybe there's a chip under a seat somewhere and it's knocking it out of whack.
Attachments
image.jpeg
image.jpeg

LIALLEGHENY
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:36 am
Location: Bohemia, NY

Re: Bought a Hardinge Sjogren No2 D1-4

Post by LIALLEGHENY » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:11 pm

What kind of runout do you have if you use a 3 jaw chuck ? Have you indicated the taper on the spindle to make sure the spindle is running true?

I'll try to take a picture of my 3J chuck tonight and show you how my backplate comes apart.

Have you tried contacting Hardinge to see if they have an exploded view of your chuck?

Nyle

jscarmozza
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:09 pm

Re: Bought a Hardinge Sjogren No2 D1-4

Post by jscarmozza » Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:55 pm

My spindle runs true, my three jaw runs out about 4 thousandths. I'll reach out to Hardinge to see if I can get some info on the chuck, but I think I'm just going to have to live with it. Thanks.
John

jscarmozza
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:09 pm

Re: Bought a Hardinge Sjogren No2 D1-4

Post by jscarmozza » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:10 pm

Got it!
Lots of chips inside...a good cleaning is in order.

Post Reply