New old Weiler

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tomjaksa
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:11 pm

New old Weiler

Post by tomjaksa »

Hi everybody

I am a new member from South Africa
I scored this week.....A Weiler Condor came knocking.
My father in law brought it home one day from his machine dealer friend who ran out of room.
We tested the machine at home and it does run. Did not run the saddle the ways are rusty.

I told my dad we should clean this machine up before lugging it into the workshop as there is no space to tear the machine down.
We decided to give the strip and repair what needs to be repaired. A coat of paint i think is also in order.
It has changed color 3 times as i can see. So the chips in it are rather deep.

I see that this lathe has been customized "Africa" style.

Some pics:
Weiler preview.jpg
AS she came i already removed the panels.
Weiler preview.jpg
Variable drive is missing!!
Body Panel.jpg
Cable entry Africa style

At the moment stripping the body panels so i can take the bottom cabinet for blasting.
Is there a member with a copy of the manual for the lathe perhaps?

Thanks for reading.
Attachments
Motor drive.jpg
spro
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
Location: mid atlantic

Re: New old Weiler

Post by spro »

HI. I don't have a manual nor have seen one of those lathes before. Your pics are very good so I can see it has some very good features. I guess you would want to look into the head and gearbox to see if there are any problems. Otherwise it looks a great project and lathe. The motor appears the modern type which could use a VFD. It also appears to have adjustable sheaves and range of manual adjustment.
tomjaksa
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: New old Weiler

Post by tomjaksa »

Hi spro
What is a "adjustable shaeve"?
I managed to find a German manual. It used to have a speed variator but that is missing. So a VFD will be installed.
Apparently it is a very good lathe. At the moment i am just stripping body panels. The stand is a solid cast piece. That is going for sand blasting. But first i must do all the repairs. It came from a petrochemical plant so i think it just stood there and who ever needed it used it. but nobody cared for it.
The v bed ways look in good nick once the rust is of. I did get a huge Multifix tool post with it.

Stripped the compound and cross slide yesterday. Ripped all wiring out. Work stopped today...rain and hail today.
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Harold_V
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Re: New old Weiler

Post by Harold_V »

I don't want to rain on your parade, but heavy rust tends to destroy machine tools. Precision surfaces, the very thing that makes machine tools so expensive, are altered, so nothing fits as it should. That's not to say a machine in such condition won't make chips---it will, but you may or may not enjoy the level of control and precision the machine was made to provide.

A machine tools has no need to be "pretty". We all like them to shine, but if they can't perform as required, doesn't really matter how nice it looks. Before investing a huge amount of effort and money, might be wise to determine if this machine will fill your needs. It may not.

Just sayin' :wink:

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
tomjaksa
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: New old Weiler

Post by tomjaksa »

Ty for the heads up Harold.
How would be the best way to check that. Obviously i have to clean the ways first. I do not have a D1-4 chuck nor a collet?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Ty
spro
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Location: mid atlantic

Re: New old Weiler

Post by spro »

I just spent some time reading about Weiler lathes over at LathesUK . Fountain of info and looking at the Condor and VS models, have a grasp of yours. Very nice lathe like a Mercedes is a very nice car. I cannot see rust on those broad ways but you said it had some. That lathe had hardened everything and that must have included the bed ways. My old way is to soften/neutralize the rust with a penetrant. Then "shave" the rust with single side razor blades, held at two angles. What we are trying to do here is preserve the original way flatness and surface metal. If one goes to abrasive early on, they mix the signals of what is a raised "pock". A pock or dent can be worked back and the razor will find it. Razors are wiped clean and relubed with penetrant at each pass or frequently. The "scew" angle is always being varied to cut the rust and not dig the metal.
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Harold_V
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Re: New old Weiler

Post by Harold_V »

spro wrote: What we are trying to do here is preserve the original way flatness and surface metal.
And therein lies the problem. Rust isn't "paint", something that is added to the surface. It IS the surface, which has now combined with oxygen, swelling to double it's size. Anything removed equates to the removal of precision---and it's not uniform. Rule of thumb is that rust grows out as much as it grows in, so if you remove a couple thou, you have effectively removed a thousandth of sound metal. Doesn't sound like much, but in the world of precision, it is.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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Harold_V
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Re: New old Weiler

Post by Harold_V »

tomjaksa wrote:Ty for the heads up Harold.
How would be the best way to check that. Obviously i have to clean the ways first. I do not have a D1-4 chuck nor a collet?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Ty
Your comment "Did not run the saddle the ways are rusty" is what prompted mine. Ways generally don't rust under the saddle, although that's dependent on how long the machine has been exposed to water, and how well it was protected prior to exposure. Where you find rust, the damage is done, and can't be reversed. All you can do is live with it, assuming you hope to put the machine to use. The area where there isn't rust will no longer be in the same plane as where there is---again, depending on the severity of the rust.

That said, I agree with spro----don't go after it with abrasives--but if it's severe, you may have no alternative, and that should be sign enough that you're wasting your time. Gently scrape away the rust, using a razor as advised. When you are able to move the carriage (or any other rusted slide, all of which should be wiped clean and oiled before moving), you can then assess the degree of degradation. It isn't uncommon to see steps, with rusted areas below adjacent surfaces. The greater the steps, the less likely the machine is to perform as intended. However, what you hope to achieve with the machine plays a role, too. Turning manhole covers, as an example, is far less demanding of precision than would be making mating fits for parts.

If you are not a seasoned machinist, you may struggle with such a machine, thinking you don't have the skills required to be successful. That may or may not be true if the machine is badly damaged by rust.

And---keep in mind---lathes have bearings. If water has entered bearings, they, too, may be harmed, and they can be exceedingly expensive to replace, depending on the bearing(s) in question.

I've long lived with the theory that when a machine tool is badly worn, it's usually worn in all areas, so putting much effort in trying to make it functional isn't really worth the cost and time it takes. Again, it most likely would be able to make chips, but it may not be up to the task of making (good) parts. That is a judgment call you must make.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
tomjaksa
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: New old Weiler

Post by tomjaksa »

hi guys.

Had some sunshine this morning. Tried the razor blade with WD40. The results?.....see pics.
i did not touch the v where the tailstock was resting to show the before.....anything to the left of that was under the saddle.
I did not want to move the saddle to the rusty bits.I was pleasantly suprised after i lifted it off. Oh and cudo`s to the Germans....all is easy and well thought out.
Ways 1.jpg
Ways 2.jpg
spro
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
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Re: New old Weiler

Post by spro »

This is really looking good. Please don't overlook the previous advice and about the bearings. Bearings all over that double walled apron don't need any grit. Remember the "kill" switch to the left while rewiring.
spro
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
Location: mid atlantic

Re: New old Weiler

Post by spro »

This is looking too good, so there is something else. Harold mentioned the headstock bearings and then gearing inside that and the change gear boxes... at a blinding rate you are moving forward but there is something. I would have gone for that lathe / achieve that lathe in worse condition than it appears because it ...really is a step into a different category.
I would still continue, yet there was a reason the intermediate speed control was removed/replaced. It may have been that it went funky. On a bad day, that machine could still hold tolerances tighter than a hobby lathe and so it may go.
Very cool machine and within those central doors are drawer slides for many attachments and tooling.
tomjaksa
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:11 pm

Re: New old Weiler

Post by tomjaksa »

It will take a while before i take the head stock off. i just removed the apron. Building up the courage to open it up. I will remove the bottom "sump" plate of the apron. What i find in the bottom should tell me quite a lot. I did peer into the headstock and the gears look great. no slop in them as far as i could test with my hand. turned it by hand and all the gearing moves like butter.

Later this evening i will write a bit more about myself and what the machine is intended for.
And thank you for all the guidance....it really appreciate it.
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