BXA toolholder

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Froneck
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BXA toolholder

Post by Froneck » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:54 pm

I was searching the web for information on the BXA toolpost and holder. One of the links was to this forum.
I'm somewhat a hobby machinist though my machines are larger than most hobbyist have. The smallest toolpost I have is the CXA, have the CA and the EA too. I'm quite familiar with them and the companies that make them
However my son that lives quite a few states away purchased a nice South Bend lathe late model (1996) He wanted an Aloris type quick change and I found what I thought was a BXA with one tool holder on an online auction, bought it and had it sent to my son, Worked well and he liked it but only one tool holder so he asked me to find another. Found one on ebay, it came and looks as it was not used, if it was it was hardly used. I sent it to him. It is stamped as all Aloris holders BXA-2 Plus the typical Aloris name stamp. He has the piston type holder but it don't fit! The toolpost is definitely an Aloris but I'm not sure of the size. It has the Aloris tag but other than identifying it as an Alois the tag is banged up and other info is not readable. The toolholder he has has the typical Aloris stamping and marked BXA but looks to save been modified though very well done if it was altered.
I'm wondering could the toolpost be an AXA?
As I said I'm very familiar with the larger models but need help with the smaller ones.

John Evans
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Re: BXA toolholder

Post by John Evans » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:04 am

My AXA post measures 2.5 sq. BXA would be larger.
www.chaski.com

spro
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Re: BXA toolholder

Post by spro » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:14 am

Welcome to the board of our Site. Your question was a little confusing, in that the sizes come from A-C+. I will back out of here.
It would be that both the tool post and tool holders were modified. Like a B to an A toolpost and an A to a B tool holder.

choprboy
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Re: BXA toolholder

Post by choprboy » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:48 am

You can take a guess from the toolpost exterior dimensions, but you really need to measure the dovetail with pins. Unfortunately... while AXA/BXA/etc. are sort-of-standardized by lathe size (tool height), it seems like every manufacturer uses a bit different dovetail dimensions for the same size class, and it may even vary within the same manufacturer between different product lines.

I have yet to find a good list of different dovetail sizes, but the Dorian catalog has a "match your dovetail" graphic that you can lay a toolholder onto to measure (though note the dimensions are conspicuously omitted from the dimensions table). It's on page 8 of their lathe accessories catalog.
http://www.doriantool.com/wp-content/up ... atalog.pdf

Froneck
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Re: BXA toolholder

Post by Froneck » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:01 am

Thanks for the Dorian Link I will try that. As I did mention all is supposed to be BXA all have the Aloris name on them and the Aloris size which is BXA except the Toolpost that the size was unreadable. Though other brands have similar products that will fit the numbering is different. I have Aloris CXA and CA. I have holders made by Dorian, Armstrong, Yuasa and the Chinese. Though only a couple Chinese that I don't like especially the clamping screws.
I did not see the holder my son has but he is sending them to me to be modified. But would like to know what he has so future purchases will fit. From what he is telling me the 2 holders are identical except for the width. The one fitting is about 1/8" shorter on the Dovetail side and therefore the Dovetail is shorter in depth. The one that fits would be the same as the other if the added 1/8" is removed. The widest width of the Dovetail is the same so the wider one has a smaller end opening in that it extends the additional 1/8"
One reason I'm asking is that when searching and finding a link to a topic here about someone asking which of the two sizes are better for his lathe. A reply though there were many others by someone having both claimed the AXA and BXA holders are interchangeable. I was assuming that the AXA holder might fit the BXA toolpost and that is the 1/8" difference. Having over 30 CXA and 10 CA holders I know they are definitely NOT interchangeable since the Dovetail is quite a bit wider on the CA compared to the CXA. Having the Dorian equivalent to the EA Aloris, that beast is in a different class. Hard to argue that it's Quick Change in that I can't remove the holder with one hand with no tool in it and often when not needing tool interchange to keep setting the same I remove the cutting tool rather than remove the holder.

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GlennW
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Re: BXA toolholder

Post by GlennW » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:36 am

Welcome Froneck,

There is nothing interchangeable between AXA and BXA tool posts.

The AXA tool post will be 2.250" tall and the BXA will be 2.750" tall.

Using 1/4" pins, the dovetail width on a AXA tool holder measures 1.007" between the pins and a BXA measures 1.080". (Using calipers as it's just a comparison)

If other dimensions would help, I'll do what I can.

(This isn't 1911 related is it? :wink: )
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!

Froneck
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Re: BXA toolholder

Post by Froneck » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:49 am

Thanks Glenn, what about the depth? The difference between the 2 holders my son now has is the depth. The Depth of the dovetail that fit's his toolpost is about 1/8" less then the one that don't fit. However both are marked BXA though the one I sent him that don't fit is marked BXA-2. Having the larger series the difference between the CA-1 and CA-2 it the CA-1 is flat bottomed in the tool opening whereas the CA-2 has a V groove in part of the flat for small round cutting tools like boring bars. The BXA-2 I sent him also has the V groove.

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GlennW
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Re: BXA toolholder

Post by GlennW » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:01 am

The depth of the BXA is .406".

As far as the -1 and -2 nomenclature, it's the same as your CX series. The dash number indicates the style of tool holder.
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!

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wlw-19958
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Re: BXA toolholder

Post by wlw-19958 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:59 pm

Hi There,

I cannot remember exactly when this occurred but there was a time
where some Aloris tool holders would not fit some Aloris toolposts.
I had two genuine Aloris AXA toolposts and I had about 4 genuine
Aloris tool holders that didn't fit one of the toolposts. At that time,
if you contacted Aloris, they would give you and address to send the
toolpost and holders to and they would regrind the dovetail on the
offending holders so they would fit for free. This was only for genuine
ALoris toolpost and holders.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

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GlennW
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Re: BXA toolholder

Post by GlennW » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:14 pm

I had one of the tool holders that would not drop onto the post when I first switched to Aloris and Aloris took care of it as above.

I had forgotten about that.
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!

Froneck
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Re: BXA toolholder

Post by Froneck » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:34 pm

Great Info Guys! That explains why a Genuine Aloris toolpost will not accept one of the two Genuine Aloris holders marked BXA. I will try to get Aloris to modify the holder. I will report the outcome. Thanks again for the info.!

whateg0
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Re: BXA toolholder

Post by whateg0 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:45 pm

Froneck wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:34 pm
Great Info Guys! That explains why a Genuine Aloris toolpost will not accept one of the two Genuine Aloris holders marked BXA. I will try to get Aloris to modify the holder. I will report the outcome. Thanks again for the info.!
I'm not sure that explains it. I would expect the differences to be fairly small, though I could be wrong. An 1/8" is pretty significant. Actual measurements of the offending pieces would be ideal, but if a CXA toolpost had the top of the dovetail (not sure if the male part is the pin or tail) ground down an 1/8", and a BXA toolholder had the mating surface ground down 1/8", would they fit together? That's the only way I see these parts being modified to fit together.

Dave

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