There is something very odd here...... A couple theories.....
Theory #1:
It is that 1680 RPM.
That motor, if that is correct, has an amazing amount of "slip" at rated power. "Slip" is the differnce between "synchronous speed" and speed at rated power.
A 4pole motor has a "synchronous speed" of 1800 rpm. Most motors are rated at 1750 or 1725 rpm, because it takes some "slip" for the motor to develop actual power. That is 50 or 75 rpm of slip, or about 3% to 4% slip.
But a 1680 rpm motor has about double the normal "slip", at nearly 7%.
Larger slip also means the motor is operating at a point that may be close to the point where torque starts to "break down" and the motor speed drops drastically with load.
It may be unable to "pull in" and reach fill speed on high.
Theory #2
An alternative theory is that it is actually wired for 240, and when run at 120, it just cannot pull the required current.
You can decide that by using a clamp-on meter. See if the no-load current is close to 30% or 40% of the marked full-load current.
If it is much lower, close to half, then the motor is quite possibly wired for a higher voltage than you are using.
Lathe motor
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J Tiers
Ugh, can't edit....
For the miswired idea, the "half" was half of the 30 or 40% of marked full load current.
So if it says 10A full load, you'd expect something at least 3 to 4, maybe even 5 amps no load.
If it is quite a bit less than that, it may be miswired.
Either way, if it does not reach 60% or better of full speed, the start switch won't open and the start current will probably pop the breaker shortly.
For the miswired idea, the "half" was half of the 30 or 40% of marked full load current.
So if it says 10A full load, you'd expect something at least 3 to 4, maybe even 5 amps no load.
If it is quite a bit less than that, it may be miswired.
Either way, if it does not reach 60% or better of full speed, the start switch won't open and the start current will probably pop the breaker shortly.
Thanks again for all of the posts. Yes, 1680 is the RPM listed on the name plate. Reading all of the posts has re-enforced my conclusion that the motor is inadequate for the "job-at-hand". Have been looking at 1 1/2 to 2 Hp to replace it with. If I go with 220 v, I will have to also get a 110/220 transformer ts step down to provide power for relays. "It's always something"
Mel
Mel
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Flybynight
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:27 pm
- Location: Beaver Dam,AZ
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PaulT
Now that we're spending your money on a new motor, why not go first class, get a 2HP 220v. 3 phase motor and VFD. Controlled smooth starting, stopping and reversing (great for tapping), continuous speed control, and smoother operation than a single phase motor. The VFD will generate true 3 phase power from a single phase 220 v. input.
www.dealerselectric.com will sell you a package with both the motor and a VFD.
Paul T.
www.dealerselectric.com will sell you a package with both the motor and a VFD.
Paul T.
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Bill Shields
Motor
1680 rpm motors are not all that uncommon. With large gaps between rotor and stator....a lot of slippage exists.
I have one on my chinese lathe...it seems to run OK under light loads.
IF I load it hard, it does indeed, drop BELOW the centrifugal switch speed, and the starting coil pops in and out and the speed jumps up and down.
I have been waiting for it to fail since 1979 so I can replace it...
Oh well.....
I have one on my chinese lathe...it seems to run OK under light loads.
IF I load it hard, it does indeed, drop BELOW the centrifugal switch speed, and the starting coil pops in and out and the speed jumps up and down.
I have been waiting for it to fail since 1979 so I can replace it...
Oh well.....
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Guest
FWIW, a friend bought a DealersElectric VFD/motor combo and the motor was US brand, made in China. VFD was TECO FM100. One problem with getting a new motor is the shaft size. Chinese shafts tend to be metric, so a 1ph motor might need a new sheave also, or a shim on the shaft. If the motor is 110/220 dual volt, I suggest rewiring for 220 and running the motor on 22vac. If there are contactors operating the motor, a transformer with 220v primary and secondary volts to the nominal coil rating on the contactors would be useful.
Steve
Steve
Mr Guest,
If this had been for my personal shop you bet it would have gone back. I'd have not settled for a replacement. I would have demanded a full refund and bought something else. This sorry "Wilton" drill press was bought for our museum shop through the City, so a return would have been a beaurocratic nightmare and would have left us without a press for some time.
I have a few serious issues with "Wilton" regarding this press. First off, I thought I was buying a WILTON, not a JET with a different sticker slapped on it. If I had know I was getting a Jet anyway, I'd have BOUGHT a Jet and saved money... but then, I'd have just bought a HF knowing it was the EXACT same machine and saved even more. Only when the machine arrived and the paperwork inside was opened did it become obvious that there is no difference in a Jet, Wilton or Powermatic. They are all the same company now. Many years ago I saw the new real-live US Wilton drill presses and severely coveted one. I finally got the chance to get a new one for the shop and got a crappy Chinese press I could have bought down at HF instead. Lesson learned.
Spending extra dollars on a certain brand and expecting the quality to be a little higher, as many suggest, is a total myth. If you are going to buy Chinese, get the cheapest one you can and sort through them to find the best one. I have done this with cheap acoustic guitars, too. Play the whole rack and find the one that both plays best and sounds decent. Similarly, get a DP at HF, go out to the parking lot and open it up. If it is junk, go right back and get another. In the process you will run the gamut of total crap and an acceptable product. Probably none will be stellar, but at least you know you have the best available for the money. The only way to find a decent one is to pick it by hand. Ordering and taking a shipment from Wilton, Jet, Grizzly, etc.... is a total crapshoot.
Another myth was that the Wilton imports were Taiwanese. Nope. Made in China right there on the label. I would suggest you be VERY wary about buying ANYTHING from Wilton, Jet or Powermatic that is supposed to be Taiwanese until it is unpacked and the "Made in Taiwan" label on the side is confirmed. Even then, it is more likely "Finished in Taiwan" in all reality. Chinese castings and parts shipped in and assembled in Taiwan.
This is the exact problem with this Chinese junk. One guy gets a great one, while the next 30 get a piece of crap. It will never be a problem for me again, though. I will never buy another Chinese machine tool.
I am not "bitching" by the way, I am informing others of what they can expect if they buy a Wilton drill press thinking they might get a better unit than is available down at HF. This is not Ebay, I can't leave bad feedback, so I hope this can help somebody avoid getting had. I certainly feel this drill press was a ripoff and a misrepresentation of a quality brand name.
If this had been for my personal shop you bet it would have gone back. I'd have not settled for a replacement. I would have demanded a full refund and bought something else. This sorry "Wilton" drill press was bought for our museum shop through the City, so a return would have been a beaurocratic nightmare and would have left us without a press for some time.
I have a few serious issues with "Wilton" regarding this press. First off, I thought I was buying a WILTON, not a JET with a different sticker slapped on it. If I had know I was getting a Jet anyway, I'd have BOUGHT a Jet and saved money... but then, I'd have just bought a HF knowing it was the EXACT same machine and saved even more. Only when the machine arrived and the paperwork inside was opened did it become obvious that there is no difference in a Jet, Wilton or Powermatic. They are all the same company now. Many years ago I saw the new real-live US Wilton drill presses and severely coveted one. I finally got the chance to get a new one for the shop and got a crappy Chinese press I could have bought down at HF instead. Lesson learned.
Spending extra dollars on a certain brand and expecting the quality to be a little higher, as many suggest, is a total myth. If you are going to buy Chinese, get the cheapest one you can and sort through them to find the best one. I have done this with cheap acoustic guitars, too. Play the whole rack and find the one that both plays best and sounds decent. Similarly, get a DP at HF, go out to the parking lot and open it up. If it is junk, go right back and get another. In the process you will run the gamut of total crap and an acceptable product. Probably none will be stellar, but at least you know you have the best available for the money. The only way to find a decent one is to pick it by hand. Ordering and taking a shipment from Wilton, Jet, Grizzly, etc.... is a total crapshoot.
Another myth was that the Wilton imports were Taiwanese. Nope. Made in China right there on the label. I would suggest you be VERY wary about buying ANYTHING from Wilton, Jet or Powermatic that is supposed to be Taiwanese until it is unpacked and the "Made in Taiwan" label on the side is confirmed. Even then, it is more likely "Finished in Taiwan" in all reality. Chinese castings and parts shipped in and assembled in Taiwan.
This is the exact problem with this Chinese junk. One guy gets a great one, while the next 30 get a piece of crap. It will never be a problem for me again, though. I will never buy another Chinese machine tool.
I am not "bitching" by the way, I am informing others of what they can expect if they buy a Wilton drill press thinking they might get a better unit than is available down at HF. This is not Ebay, I can't leave bad feedback, so I hope this can help somebody avoid getting had. I certainly feel this drill press was a ripoff and a misrepresentation of a quality brand name.
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brianturner
mike c please describe the problems you have with the drill i would like to know in case ours ever breaks down.
i have another one that we bought thats is a jet and it was made in germany and it is nice too but expensive. we have a radial drill made in china too i forget the name but it is damn nice too, it has a lot of balls to it. think it is from enco.
i heard a guy on another board saying that clausings are all made in china now and i know those are not junk, we just got one in about 2 months ago and it is tits. made by colchester dalian group and it is for sure a chinese one but just as good as the last one we got from england, so far anyway.
what is the difference between china and taiwan anyway, taiwan is china.
and china is taiwan. it is like being made in hawaii and saying that it is not made in the usa. isnt it?
how do you register for this board it is pretty neat but i cannot login ever
i have another one that we bought thats is a jet and it was made in germany and it is nice too but expensive. we have a radial drill made in china too i forget the name but it is damn nice too, it has a lot of balls to it. think it is from enco.
i heard a guy on another board saying that clausings are all made in china now and i know those are not junk, we just got one in about 2 months ago and it is tits. made by colchester dalian group and it is for sure a chinese one but just as good as the last one we got from england, so far anyway.
what is the difference between china and taiwan anyway, taiwan is china.
and china is taiwan. it is like being made in hawaii and saying that it is not made in the usa. isnt it?
how do you register for this board it is pretty neat but i cannot login ever
Motor problems first (as this is the topic of discussion). 1 1/2hp motor will not start and run in top speed off 110V (motor is 110/220). Motor start/run governor occasionally hangs up in run and will not start in any speed when this happens. I took the motor apart to see what was wrong and found the shaft bearing surface for the governor flyweights to be extremely rough-machined. It was pratically poor threads. In the process found out the motor fan was shaped like a potato chip, over 1/4" warped. Tried turning down and polishing the shaft a bit to slick it up and greased shaft with white lith grease. Still hangs up on a regular basis, so there is now a 2x4 stationed beside the press to smack the motor so the governor will release.
But wait, there's more....
The table was planed with an obviously chipped cutter. It is terribly grooved and uneven. The 1/2" T slots are a joke and render my clamp kit that works on everything else useless. The rack that raises the table is so flimsy it bows out from the column far enough to see dayight behind it even with nothing on the table. Put a cheap drill press vise on it and not only does it bow out, you have to pull UP on the table to be able to rotate it around the column. If you leave this one unclamped with any weight on the table, the rack will collapse. The handle for this rack mechanism is a joke and gives you virtually no leverage. The clamp handle is a piece of 3/8" rod wth some knurling on it.
The chinese chuck has about .020 runout. The taper is fairly straight, so I use morse taper bits almost exclusively (luckily have a full set). There is no light in the head. Belts were already about toast in two months of light use. With all this, I figured I better not really check it to see whether it was square or not, probably just pi$$ me off.
This is the 20" press that costs $1100 from "Wilton of China", the same exact HF machine is about $700 and has a slick table and a light in the head. I went over to HF and looked over the machine. They are absolutely IDENTICAL other than the light and color of paint.
The myth is that the Tiawanese machines are much better than the Chinese machines (Chinese factories of the recent past basically being slave labor camps) and that Jet is made in Taiwan (better working conditions, happier employees, etc..). I do not know for a fact if this is the case, but I know many folks out in internet land think that all Jet machines are made in Taiwan. NOT SO. Check the label or sing the blues.
I'll stick with big old American machines myself. I have several that were cutting metal before Chairman Mao was out of diapers.
But wait, there's more....
The table was planed with an obviously chipped cutter. It is terribly grooved and uneven. The 1/2" T slots are a joke and render my clamp kit that works on everything else useless. The rack that raises the table is so flimsy it bows out from the column far enough to see dayight behind it even with nothing on the table. Put a cheap drill press vise on it and not only does it bow out, you have to pull UP on the table to be able to rotate it around the column. If you leave this one unclamped with any weight on the table, the rack will collapse. The handle for this rack mechanism is a joke and gives you virtually no leverage. The clamp handle is a piece of 3/8" rod wth some knurling on it.
The chinese chuck has about .020 runout. The taper is fairly straight, so I use morse taper bits almost exclusively (luckily have a full set). There is no light in the head. Belts were already about toast in two months of light use. With all this, I figured I better not really check it to see whether it was square or not, probably just pi$$ me off.
This is the 20" press that costs $1100 from "Wilton of China", the same exact HF machine is about $700 and has a slick table and a light in the head. I went over to HF and looked over the machine. They are absolutely IDENTICAL other than the light and color of paint.
The myth is that the Tiawanese machines are much better than the Chinese machines (Chinese factories of the recent past basically being slave labor camps) and that Jet is made in Taiwan (better working conditions, happier employees, etc..). I do not know for a fact if this is the case, but I know many folks out in internet land think that all Jet machines are made in Taiwan. NOT SO. Check the label or sing the blues.
I'll stick with big old American machines myself. I have several that were cutting metal before Chairman Mao was out of diapers.
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Matt_Isserstedt
I think Flybynight has given excellent advice. Run the motor on 220vac if possible.
Bring the Neutral wire for 110vac for the controls.
Bring the Ground wire for safety.
I had a Craftsman tablesaw once...nice machine with a USA motor that I eventually traded for a Powermatic 66. I digress, but I originally ran the Craftyman on 110vac. It would dim the lights in the shop and take ~3 seconds to come up to speed.
Converting it over to 220vac was simply an amazing difference. The saw was up to speed in ~0.5 second. BAM. No dimming of the lights.
Bring the Neutral wire for 110vac for the controls.
Bring the Ground wire for safety.
I had a Craftsman tablesaw once...nice machine with a USA motor that I eventually traded for a Powermatic 66. I digress, but I originally ran the Craftyman on 110vac. It would dim the lights in the shop and take ~3 seconds to come up to speed.
Converting it over to 220vac was simply an amazing difference. The saw was up to speed in ~0.5 second. BAM. No dimming of the lights.