Greeting from the "Atlas lathe impaired"

440roadrunner · Post by **440roadrunner** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:30 pm

I'd started this thread "over there" and someone suggested I search around at this forum.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/u ... /7574.html

I've recently gotten a little Atlas 12" lathe, added a gearbox, and found one of these evidently rare "production cross slides" which was actually for a 10" lathe:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ATLAS-2-TOOLPOST-PR ... dZViewItem

I'm aging before my time, at 59 I already have some rather irritating osteo problems. In a former life, I spent 6 yrs in the US Navy, as an electronics tech, maintaining GCA (Ground Controlled Approach, or "PAR" Precision Approach Radar.) This was at NAS Miramar, and also where I spent many hours behind the wheel of my 69 383 Plymouth Roadrunner, later the mighty 440 six pack '70 Roadrunner, as well as a 426 powered '64 Dodge. Loads of fun, back then

I spent 15 yrs selling auto/truck parts, hardware, and logging supplies, then about 12 servicing HVAC and refrigeration. The last several years I worked for a (now defunct) Motorola dealer, installing radio/ telco paging/ comm/ gear on mountaintops, towers, and in E911 dispatch centers.

Now, I'm just screwed. Trying to get by, and learn a little about my lathe.

seal killer · Post by **seal killer** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:53 pm

440roadrunner--

We are about the same age. It looks like you have done a lot of things. Your dedication to the mighty Mopar lineup is enviable! When I was a kid, I used to stick 392s in '57 Chevys . . . and everything else!

In 1970, I bought a new Hemi Cuda. Now, that was killer machine right off the showroom floor. I drove it for a year and traded the engine plus $10k to a dragracer friend of mine that had a Sox and Martin motor. He felt that there was something wrong with it because he was loosing races. There was something wrong . . . he was too old to race! (Probably about our age now.) He couldn't shift worth a darn. So, I suddenly had a little over 900 horses in, basically, a street machine.

I lost a SINGLE race on the strip . . . to Big Daddy, himself. They could not dial in enough time on the lights, so they spotted and flagged me. I launched in second, instead of my usual third, and within maybe a hundred feet of the lights I was sure I had beaten him. Then, there was this HORRIBLE roar and I chanced a glance in the rearview and VERY briefly saw Don Garlits, slicks still smoking, headers blowing fire, scream past me at over 240 mph. (1971: 240 was good for AA Fuel.)

I will watch for feed back on your Atlas lathe.

--Bill

440roadrunner · Post by **440roadrunner** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:45 pm

Actually, that was the short story. I had a few more unremarkable combinations. Also, "later" in it's life, the '70 six pack car got a 340 (that's right THREE forty) swapped in, and there was really a lot of fun. That thing, with headers, would stay with most 383's and then you got to open the hood, and let the victim see the "little bitty" engine that didn't belong in that '70 body.

Wish I had that car today. Just the body would be worth a lot of money. I sold it in the late '70's when it's value was at it's lowest.

SteveM · Post by **SteveM** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:33 am

I have one of those toolholder / cross slide setups I haven't used it yet, but I suspect that if I have some "production" work to do, it could come in handy. I also have the turret tailstock.

That cross slide is longer, thicker and therefore, probably significantly more rigid than the standard one with the compound and the AXA tool post.

The downside is that you don't get to use the compound to move very small increments (set the compound at 30 degrees and the marks become 1/2 a thou, at 6 degrees and the marks become tenths).

BTW, growing up we had two kids with Dodge Dart GTS's. One had a 383, holly 850 and headers in the fenders. When you asked the otehr guy what he had, he'd say. "Oh, it's just a 6". Of course, he was referring to the carburetor.

Steve

440roadrunner · Post by **440roadrunner** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:49 am

Thanks, Steve. Actually, I'm on the road to solving the compound problem with that big crossslide. I bought a 10" compound off eFray, which is of course shorter. It actually is TOO short for the original lantern, and I now have to shim it up.

However, I also bought a nice little tool post

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0163770631

and turned the "T" off the bottom, so I could block it up and use it on this new slide. THEN I realized, that if I now take just an additional small amount off the bottom, I can use this toolpost on the ORIGINAL compound on the new slide. It takes a 3/8" bolt, so should be fairly stable.

I had a second orginal style crossslide, that I butchered up to mount a homebrew milling attachment. I holesawed the dovetail button out of the slide, turned it down and bored the center for a bolt, and now I have a dovetail mount for the compound.

If I now learn a little more about tooling.............

If I ever get all this junk rigged, I may post some pics. I'm convinced, from what little I've done, that this crossslide is a HUGE improvement for this little lathe.

dirty old man · Post by **dirty old man** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:33 am

Hello again 440RR,
I see you found your way over here! Have you found the compilation of Harold V's tool sharpening articles? I now realize your difficulty in freehand grinding, but you may still find the discussion of relief angles, rake, lead, and etc. to be of great value. I wish you the best in your search for good results from your laudable efforts.
Dave
PS, don't forget about us "over there"!

Post by **Harold_V** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:06 pm

SteveM wrote:The downside is that you don't get to use the compound to move very small increments (set the compound at 30 degrees and the marks become 1/2 a thou, at 6 degrees and the marks become tenths).

That's hardly a loss. When you use the compound for work as you described, you lose the ability to use an indicator or DRO for linear measurements. It's far better to master your machine and use the cross slide for fine movement. Those of us that have worked in the shop commercially do it all the time.

Harold

440roadrunner · Post by **440roadrunner** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:46 pm

Hi, Harold. Actually I'm not planning on using the compound, except only possibly for facing. I'm obviously new at this, but the little Atlas, seems to me, are not very "precision" on the carriage movement as per facing. I guess I could disengage the reverse-er for the leadscrew, and advance the carriage by hand turning the gears.

I already ordered an inexpensive caliper--to use as a simple DRO on the cross slide. I realize I'll have to cover it. This lathe is not a high-use item. I can't afford or justify investing hundreds of dollars into a DRO

Post by **Harold_V** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:22 pm

Hey 440,

I'm a bit lost on your comment about facing with the compound. That's usually not a great choice because of limited travel and greater difficulty in turning the handle, which often is quite small. The compound rest is generally used for angle cutting (and/or threading), and otherwise is kept locked down. It's important to not have it move when you're machining, otherwise your dial marks become useless. That may not be important when you're taking a cut on a part and don't rely on a reference point, but when you get involved in making more than one piece, using multiple tools, it's really desirable to be able to trust a dial setting.

I gather your cross slide is not powered. That's not unusual on smaller machines. Irrespective of the nature of the machine, unless the cross slide has considerable error, and won't face flat, you're far better served to use the cross slide for facing. The compound is rarely used parallel to the cross slide, although some guys like it there. Getting it set to face flat can be time consuming, and, of course, there's the problem of it being harder to turn than the cross slide.

I'm curious about your statement about putting the reverse lever in neutral, then facing by dragging gears. Under normal circumstances, unless you engage a clutch, be it for the cross slide or the carriage, there is no connection between the handles and the gearing, so you can turn the handle freely. Could be I misunderstood your intended message.

Harold

440roadrunner · Post by **440roadrunner** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:28 pm

Again, I'm pretty new, harold. What I'm referring to is a method of feeding the tool, when facing, up and down the ways, in order to control depth of a facing cut. Trying to do that with the carriage wheel on the little atlas, has no calibrations, and fairly "high geared." What I'd inferred from some reading was, to use the crosslide for cross travel, and set the compound at 90 so you can use it for feeding the tool into the face (depth of cut)--inline with the spindle. Mine has a clamp bolt to lock the carriage in this case.

What I was pondering was to leave the leadscrew in neutral at the headstock end, but leave the half nut engaged. Now you could conceivably feed the carriage more slowly by hand turning part of the gear train. It would obviously take some trial.

The thing is, if I can use the compound as little as possible, I can make the whole thing stronger and more stable.

BadDog · Post by **BadDog** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:28 am

If I"m not mistaken, compound parallel to the ways is called the "American Compound", or something like that. I gather than they tend to keep it parallel to cross slide in Europe? <shrug> Something like that anyway. But what your doing is fine for setting DOC.

You can also look into basic trig and use the compound for super fine in-feed for both facing and turning. By choosing your angles appropriately, you can get 0.001 on the dial to yield 0.0001 actual. Likewise, you can get 0.001:0.0005 and so on. The actual angles will determine the ratio, and when figuring, you also need to account for whether you have "direct reading" or "radial reading" dials.

Using the half nuts and lead screw to control saddle travel is a very common mod for light lathes. Typically, you would get a hand wheel, about the same size (or a little smaller) than the carriage pinion wheel. Then make an extension shaft for the end of the lead screw to mount that wheel. Some even make a graduated sleeve/dial to allow precise movement just like on the cross slide, including the ability to set an arbitrary zero.

Post by **Harold_V** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:36 am

440roadrunner wrote:Again, I'm pretty new, harold. What I'm referring to is a method of feeding the tool, when facing, up and down the ways, in order to control depth of a facing cut. Trying to do that with the carriage wheel on the little atlas, has no calibrations, and fairly "high geared." What I'd inferred from some reading was, to use the crosslide for cross travel, and set the compound at 90 so you can use it for feeding the tool into the face (depth of cut)--inline with the spindle. Mine has a clamp bolt to lock the carriage in this case.

Ahhh! That makes sense. I hadn't considered that, for it's not something I do when I run a manual lathe, but it's not a bad idea if it seems to work for you. The calibration of the compound would need to be determined. The dial may read in direct movement, or by the reduction of the diameter of the part, in which case the marking on the dial would be halved in movement. If yours reads by direct movement, it's a nice way to do as you say. The very best scenario is to mount a long travel indicator by making a bracket that can be adjusted easily. That way you can leave your compound set @ 29°, with the handle angled towards the tailstock. You're always ready to chase conventional RH threads that way, and the compound is well out of the way for most operations. You need not spend a great deal of money on the long travel indicator-something import would likely work very well for the purpose. I've already noted your comments about not adding a DRO because of cost.

While a DRO can be a very nice accessory------they are not a requirement to running a lathe or mill-----just a convenience. If you learn to use the screws properly, you'll have accomplished a very desirable task.

What I was pondering was to leave the leadscrew in neutral at the headstock end, but leave the half nut engaged. Now you could conceivably feed the carriage more slowly by hand turning part of the gear train. It would obviously take some trial.

Yep! I hadn't followed your logic. Your suggestion would work fairly well, assuming you have a handle on the end of the lead screw-----but I'd encourage you to investigate an indicator. Once you can see the movement of the carriage by an indicator of sorts, you'll find that positioning isn't difficult, even with the rapid movement of the rack under the ways (assuming yours works that way. Some simply move off the lead screw, and have no rack). It's made all the easier if you keep the lathe well oiled. Make it a policy of wiping down the ways before you use the machine each time, and oil well after wiping. That way settled dust won't act as an abrasive and lap the ways, wearing them prematurely, or further if they are already somewhat worn.

Here's a tip for you. If the oil on any of the ways is darkened, it should be wiped and replaced. If the ways are covered with black oil, the black you see is the portion of the way that is worn, and is now suspended in the oil, where it accelerates more wear. Oil on ways should never be black----by then the oil is doing more damage than good.

The thing is, if I can use the compound as little as possible, I can make the whole thing stronger and more stable.

Yep! That's why I suggested the indicator. You keep the compound locked down at all times unless it's actually being used, and when it's set @ the 29° I mentioned, it doesn't interfere with using the tailstock.

I keep the gib on mine so tight the slide won't move. It takes just seconds to back it off when use of the compound is needed. My lathe (a Graziano) doesn't have a lock on the compound, so by keeping the gib tightened I gain a fair amount in rigidity, and the compound doesn't creep.

Sounds like you have things well under control.

Harold