Newbie considering a lathe purchase. Help narrow the list.

[SteveHGraham]

I feel like going back on Google and finding the posts where people told me there were like-new $1000 Bridgeports all over Ebay and Craigslist. If only those machines existed! I guess some of these guys were thinking of their experiences in the Eighties, and they didn't realize 25 years had passed. My dad is 82, and sometimes he'll talk about something he did "recently," and I'll have to remind him that it was 20 years ago. His "new" clothes dryer is 17.

[Richard_W]

If you hang out on machining forums, you'll see all sorts of people begging for help finding this part or that accessory for old American machines. The guys with Asian machines don't do that. They just use their tools. The accessories come with them.

I got really bad advice when I started out. I don't like to see other people railroaded into the same pickle.

You make a very good case and I agree with just about everything you said. Although most remove the square turret tool post and mount an Aloris wedge type tool post. On a mill you get the basic mill with nothing. And have to start by buying collets and a vise right off just to start using it. The list of much needed tooling is pretty long.

On another note I have seen Bridgeport mills that if you put the keys on a Kurt vise and then mount the vise to the mill. Then take a test indicator and run it full length of the fixed jaw you would find the vise was mounted .008 out in 6 inches. This is due to worn out dovetail on the table. Tram the head into the table and then run the quill up and down on the fixed jaw on the same Kurt vise and get .006 inches of run out. So the spindle won't bore a straight hole to the table either. So I also see the case for buying a new mill over and old one. If you don't know what you are looking at then buy new.

Yeah I would like to find a new Axelson, Sidney or Lodge & Shipley lathe, but it isn't going to happen.

Richard W.

[spro]

It will happen again but the timing may be inconvenient. I've been on this earth over 6 decades and seen the rise and fall of many things. Most cannot be expressed here even if I could do them a correct description. The more detailed the less applicable to the board. My knowledge is of style encompassing functionality with functional winning. It becomes the machines we think as common are less common. I understand and have a Thai 12x36 daily driver and it was the first and last machine I bought new. It required some tuning and even then it sucks compared to others. It becomes a fine line between the rough machine which is new and an excellent machine which needs tlc and bearings maybe to surpass any new lathe. The well worn adage that they "don't build them like they used to" is true for "They" are dead. We need to get hip or onto the liar lawyer twist of English. January 2015 will wake up some.
But good lathes are still good lathes yet not worth ruining a marriage over rebuilding . So a blanket statement is incorrect again as is threaded spindle. I've seen and own lathes with threaded spindles. It was never an issue with me or the War production guys before me. Freakin examples of the work One person did on one 11" South Bend made in '33 with strange fixtures to bore carbines. Decades fall upon another and it exists. Are we going to reverse spindle that much ? Fine. okay but history is slipping past us.
Then again don't be caught too much in that American Vintage sort of thing where you need another lathe to rebuild or use the first one. It is a balance of sorts and in my opinion, we should have one or two of the older types socked away where they don't rust. The serial #s tell a story which may be awesome.

[SteveHGraham]

Sorry if I got a little excited. This topic always pins the needle on my pet-peeve-ometer. When I was looking for my first lathe, I was really careful to get the best advice I could. I drove people crazy with questions. I got shafted anyway. Very frustrating. And if people had simply told me the truth instead of banging the idiotic "Buy American" drum, it wouldn't have happened.

Richard, I totally forgot mill tooling. I got my new Chaiwanese mill for a great price, but like you said, it came with nearly nothing. A DRO and a power feed were all I got. Can't complain, though. It was made in Taiwan and put together in China, and virtually every problem I've had with it was caused by my own stupidity. I can't think of anything an American mill would do better.

Jawn, I would take a serious look at that Eisen lathe if I were you.

[Harold_V]

I feel like going back on Google and finding the posts where people told me there were like-new $1000 Bridgeports all over Ebay and Craigslist. If only those machines existed!

Speaking from the position of a guy who has worked in the industry, and had to trust machine tools to do what they're supposed to do----I fully expect that the guys you speak of don't really have a clue. To them, if a machine is shiny (a good or new paint job), and it makes chips, it's like new. Unfortunately, in the real world, that's hardly how it works, and it appears that making mention is akin to tossing pearls before swine, as many don't seem to "get it".

What a machine looks like makes no difference. How it performs is everything. Some machines are quite ugly (my Graziano, for example), but they can still perform.

Harsh reality. Machine tools have a finite life. Every turn of the handle removes a tiny portion of that life, which is remedied only by a full rebuild (extremely costly, and often beyond the ability of the individual in question), or replacement of the machine. While many coax more miles from such machines, it's often at the cost of quality, and can be the source of demoralization for the operator, thinking they lack the required skills. Might be true. Or not.

Harold

[OlderNewbie]

To agree with Harold: My Logan 200 lathe looks like it's in great shape, and it is. My Sharp mill looks like it's in pretty good shape, too, and it is. My SB13 lathe, on the other hand, looks like it's been rode hard and put away wet after 30 years in a technical high school. I think the thing might have run as much as 30 minutes a day, but it got handled a lot and bears the scars of 30 years' worth of student mistakes. It's in the best shape of the three machines, and it's even tighter than the smaller Logan. I'm still learning to use all this stuff I could only dream of owning for so long.

None of these machines have been, er, "lucky enough" to run afoul of a "restorer" who merely wants to make them pretty. (I might someday touch up their paint to make them easier to clean. Maybe.)

I didn't pay much for either of the lathes (together they cost me a bit under $1K), and I acquired both of them over the past two years. Patience pays off. However, I do need more tooling for the SB and it ain't cheap...(I need a steady rest, faceplate, and 4-jaw chuck).

John

[SteveHGraham]

None of these machines have been, er, "lucky enough" to run afoul of a "restorer" who merely wants to make them pretty. (I might someday touch up their paint to make them easier to clean. Maybe.)

I considered buying a machine from a well-regarded "restorer." He scraped the ways on old BPs. He didn't completely refurb the machines, though. They looked great, but old is old. Paint and flat ways aren't everything.

[revrnd]

I feel like going back on Google and finding the posts where people told me there were like-new $1000 Bridgeports all over Ebay and Craigslist. If only those machines existed!

Reminds me of the ads in Popular Science and Popular Mechanics of the $50 Jeeps back in the 70s.

[revrnd]

My SB13 lathe, on the other hand, looks like it's been rode hard and put away wet after 30 years in a technical high school. I think the thing might have run as much as 30 minutes a day, but it got handled a lot and bears the scars of 30 years' worth of student mistakes. It's in the best shape of the three machines, and it's even tighter than the smaller Logan.

Bro took machine shop in all 4 years of high school. In the 70s & 80s when we attended our school (a vocational one), there were a lot of machine shop classes. In senior grade during his spare, he helped his machine shop teacher w/ the Grade 9 (junior) students. He wasn't impressed w/ what he saw. Nowadays the machine shops may be quieter. My nephew who is 17 and going into Grade 12 (a senior) said the machine shop at his high school has been unused during his time at the school.

The usage machines see now may not be as in depth as in the "good old days".

[martik777]

The OP did not mention a budget, but the problem with Asian is you cannot get "basic" features like power xfeed and a real QCGB under $3,000. I paid $400 for my 70 year old South Bend 9A 3 years ago and absolutely love it. I did have to cut a new back gear and repair the bull gear, which cost me nothing, but the experience was worth the price of the lathe. And, yes, there is a little bed wear near the chuck, but for most home shop work, it make no difference. Granted, I got a good deal but even at 2 or 3x that price I would rather have a 9A over any Asian change gear lathe.

[OlderNewbie]

Case in point: http://longisland.craigslist.org/tls/4508779701.html
And: http://cnj.craigslist.org/tls/4547973138.html

I have no idea what shape the machines are in, but if they're decent, the asking prices are pretty good...

John

[Jawn]

I keep looking hard at the Grizzly G0603 10x22 and G9972Z 11x26. About half the price of a 12x24/12x36. But they lack some of the features of the bigger ones. In any case, I'll think about it. A lathe purchase is being delayed a while...

I just happened across what looked like a fair price for a new mill/drill, so it should be enroute to me soon. I realize there's some limitations to the bench top mill/drills, but in some reviews they seem well-liked (it appears to be the Harbor Freight version of a RF31). I guess I need to start looking at mill tooling.