Morse taper end mills

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TRX
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Morse taper end mills

Post by TRX » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:49 pm

So, I'm flipping through my 1940s "Audel's Machinist and Tool Maker's Handy Book", and starting on page 702 there are some pictures and discussion of... tang drive Morse taper end mills. There's a picture of a two-flute end mill marked "P&W". There was a picture of a tang drive Morse taper T-slot cutter a couple of pages later.

Two flute mills and T-slot cutters generally have a lot of side load...

Given how I've always seen dire admonitions against using Morse taper collets and end mills in drill presses, I was astonished to see that.

The book also had some pictures of a nifty "Brown & Sharpe" quick-change system that used a steep ER-like taper, a spring in the quill, and a locking pin that looks sort of like a British-style "cotter", except that it rotated instead of slid. When you turned the lock the tool ejected automatically. Frankly, it looked like it would be a hassle to use; you'd have to force a sharp tool up into the quill with one hand while working the lock with the other, and you'd have to support it somehow when ejecting lest it escape.

pete
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Re: Morse taper end mills

Post by pete » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:00 am

The P&W might? have been Pratt and Whitney as the manufacturer (maybe). But they made a lot of machine tools, cutting tools and some high end well thought of metrology equipment as well. I'm not real enthused with MT's that use a drawbar even though they work fine. There's just better tapers than a MT for milling. I can't see that tang drive helping at all with tool pull out just as you said. Since it looks like both ideas are no longer in use that might indicate how well they worked. :-)

John Hasler
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Re: Morse taper end mills

Post by John Hasler » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:52 am

I use MT3 taper collets with my mill because that's the taper the spindle has but I added a mechanism to allow use of drawbar-type tools (the conventional "pound on the top of the mill" drawbar isn't possible). I can't see how a standard Morse taper with tang could work without some sort of retaining mechanism.

earlgo
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Re: Morse taper end mills

Post by earlgo » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:59 am

The end mill holder that came with the 1958 ATLAS 12" Lathe milling attachment is a #3MT to fit the headstock, but it has a drawbar to make sure it stays in place. Just another vote for the drawbar.
--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.

TRX
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Post by TRX » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:33 pm

John Hasler wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:52 am
I can't see how a standard Morse taper with tang could work without some sort of retaining mechanism.
That's current thinking. Elsehwere in the book I found more pictures of tanged Morse end mills in conjunction with Brown & Sharpe horizontal mills. Which is doubly odd, since they also show "tang drive" B&S taper tooling - those have no provision for a drawbar, they have a tang like a standard Morse tool.

Since I got a Gorton mill with a B&S #9 taper more than thirty years ago and I've kept an eye out for cheap B&S collets ever since, I thought I'd've noticed any B&S end mills... but come to think of it, those wouldn't have been in the catalogs I got before there was much on the Web, and on places like eBay I would have searched specifically for "collet", which would have ignored wierdball end mills. Mostly, anyway.

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neanderman
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Re: Morse taper end mills

Post by neanderman » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:03 pm

My Millrite has a #9 B&S taper spindle. I would never use any 'tanged' holders or bits while using it vertically. If I were rotating the head, and using it to mill horizontally, maybe, but otherwise no.

My dad was using his Craftsman drill press with a MT shanked chuck and it slipped out, 'grabbed' and bent the spindle. He was lucky not to be injured.
Ed

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John Hasler
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Re: Morse taper end mills

Post by John Hasler » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:45 pm

I doubt that horizontal vs vertical makes much difference. The cutting forces are orders of magnitude larger than the weight of the tool.

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SteveM
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Re: Morse taper end mills

Post by SteveM » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:43 pm

My Bridgeport M head is B&S7, so I'm always on the lookout for tooling.

Most of what comes up on ebay is tanged end mills.

Someone suggested that these for a jig bore, but that doesn't sound right to me.

One of my end mill holders has a tang. I will use that with a shortened 1/2" straight shank for a drill chuck.

Steve

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