Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

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Jim Clark
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Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Jim Clark » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:52 am

Hi, Mike,

Ok, that makes sense.

I will make sure to find a place down here that can take a look into that.

whateg0
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Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by whateg0 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:17 am

That wiring diagram on the motor and the motor nameplate do not say anything about it being multi speed. I doubt it is.

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Bill Shields
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Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Bill Shields » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:20 am

For reference purposes...

Amazon has a bunch of these reversible 110vac electric motors for around $200.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.

Jim Clark
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Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Jim Clark » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:42 am

I will look into the Amazon motors Bill. I did notice yesterday that our Harbor Freight has one that is 1hp - 110V - that is reversible for $169.00.
So there are some options out there. Thanks.

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Bill Shields
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Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Bill Shields » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:14 am

harbor freight is not really a viable option for anything that has moving parts, electrical connection or bearings.

i would be very careful regarding reviews that 'use it on a table saw'...since when was the last time that anyone had to run a table saw in reverse?

A good thing to check for is a WIRING DIAGRAM ON THE MOTOR showing how to accomplish reversal...do not assume that any two motors are alike.

I did what your BB4 HAS on it with a motor for a curtain at the local theatre (25 years ago), using a similar drum switch. while it worked, is not something that I would recommend trying to explain to someone else who is not electrically inclined....and getting the motor to a repair place and back and whatnot is probably going to exceed value of a new replacement...and i CLEARLY MARKED on the motor that it is no longer 'standard' and requires special attention if replaced'.

Would not recommend a VFD for this application just to get the motor to run in reverse. while the VFD / 3 phase motor will work, is probably more trouble than worth.

Leeson makes an INSTANT REVERSE service motor. which lets you reverse without a full stop - probably not needed on a mill...but handy on a lathe.
Leeson model 191743.00
Too many things going on to bother listing them.

Jim Clark
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Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Jim Clark » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:45 am

Honestly, when the thing is running without blowing the fuse the motor that is in it is more than capable of doing the job, which is where this all began.
It runs quiet, is strong, and I have not had an issue with it stopping while in service. Nothing comes on now, after moving the wires around in the machine cabinet to see where everything is routed. I am pretty sure that the problem is not in the motor. I am thinking that perhaps the original problem started with this wiring issue. That might also account for the fuse heating up. I intend to try and find the break in the system and repair it, and check the fuse for warmth once it is running again.

The motor just became a topic of discussion when I mentioned that I would like to get all of the original functions going in it if I am going to put in the work to fix whatever issue it currently has. I am starting to see that getting all of the functions to work is going to be a chore now, and I am leaning towards just getting it to come on and using it set up as it is until I can afford a complete rebuild.
At some point it will get completely rebuilt, which it definitely needs. The stand for example is fairly rusted.

I have had several people suggest a VFD and 3 phase motor. That seems to be the consensus of most professional machinists that I talk to. I would not have a problem with that if money were not an option. However, I also do not use the machine as a source of income, nor do I use it frequently, so that investment is probably not going to be a good idea for this machine. Lastly, I really appreciate the machine for what it is, and I am not sure that I want to put modern electronics into it. I would like to set the barrel switches up and run it old school to be honest. If my shop was set up to run 3 phase I would just go that route.

Right now I would like to see what it would cost to have a repair shop diagnose the one that is in there. If it is not the cause of the problem then I think I will probably just leave it in there and disconnect the speed switch all together. Replacing the motor became a topic when it was discovered that the motor that is in there is probably not the original, and is probably not a 2 speed motor.

We have discovered that it is reversible however, but I am not sure why the fellow that had it before me disconnected that feature. Which is another reason why I would like to have it looked at. If it is something stupid, like a capacitor, I can replace that.

That and I can no longer read all of the numbers on the wiring that is in the motor. That would need to be sorted by the shop as well. I think that is the result of the back of the motor not being installed, and it sat in his basement for years that way.

It all depends upon what they are going to charge to look it over. If it is reasonable to have them diagnose it then I will leave it with them. If not then I will need to look at another option. I guess I will have to cross that bridge when I get to it.

Thank you for the suggestions Bill

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Bill Shields
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Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Bill Shields » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:39 pm

at even $50 / hour for shop time...you are going to eat up the $$ of a new motor really quick...which is why (generally) these smaller motors have pretty much become a disposable commodity.

the trouble with just replacing what you have with a VFD is that while you may get full torque out of the motor, you are losing the torque multiplier of the pulleys or gearboxes...and when do you run the cutter slow? when it is a big cutter and NEEDS the torque multiplier of the gearbox / pulleys....so you end up needing the pulleys / gearbox anyway.

yes the VFD gives you some leeway but it is not a sliver bullet. I like mine, but the motor STILL drives through step pulleys and only gets slowed down to use an edge finder or when I am drilling many different size holes.

the most cost effective route for you is most likely to just change the motor and use the wiring diagram on the new motor as a guide.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.

Jim Clark
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Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by Jim Clark » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:20 pm

That all makes sense, thanks for the input. I will keep shopping around.

kl7sg
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Re: Hardinge BB4 wiring issues - Please help!

Post by kl7sg » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:23 pm

Jim,

Give me a call so we can discuss some ideas I have.
I sent you a PM.

Mike
Have a nice day,

Mike

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