R8 shank with ER32 collet system.

[Richard_W]

I have been thinking about getting an R8 shank ER32 collet set. I have used them in 40 and 50 taper, but not in an R8. I like the idea that I could put any size shank drill, end mill or tap with in the ER32 collet range. I don't see any bench holders for tightening the collet on the bench. Are they made?

What are the problems if any with R8 shank?

Richard W.

[WesHowe]

I have an r8 collet set, this one: http://www.grizzly.com/products/R-8-Qui ... Set/T26688
Note that is not a full range of sizes, and I have never tried drilling with one. Also, I don't think they are ER32, maybe 44. They take around one or two more inches of vertical space than size specific milling tool holders (but less than a drill chuck), but you don't have to pull the draw bar to change the collet size when you want to change to a different diameter mill. Or put a fly cutter or face milling tool on.

I have seen some posts from people that use them for everything. The get straight-shank arbors for a drill chuck, various diameter and type milling cutters, all with 3/4" shanks (that seemed common) so that all they do is loosen the old tool and insert the new one when changing operations. I have thought about doing something similar, but my hand refuses to go into my wallet as long as I have perfectly serviceable tools that just need a little more work to put in.

- Wes

[SteveM]

The downsides are reduced headroom, as Wes said, and increased flex because of increased tool overhang. You may not want to use such a system if you are hogging a lot of metal.

Pluses include not having to undo the drawbar (again, as Wes said) plus, ironically, not needing a lot of headroom to change tools. Sometimes you have a setup where you can't lower the knee enough to remove an R8-shank tool to change tools and you need to move the X-axis and lose your location.

Tooling with 3/4" shanks (shanks only as long as the collet needs) will let you swap thing out easily. If you need the additional headroom, you can always use those straight-shank tools with your 3/4" R8 collet.

Steve

[tornitore45]

If you have several tools standardized to a 3/4" shank, then there is no point in using an ER collet just to trade tightening the Nut instead of the draw-bar. Just use a 3/4" R8 collet and enjoy 2" extra Z.

I like the ER for those repeated operations when lots of different shanks are to be fitted, like: center drilling, drilling, chamfering, tapping OR small cutters. If I have to do some hogging I like the R8 collet to limit the load on the spindle.

[ccfl]

I suppose there are collet chucks out there that don't have flats or notches on the chuck body (two flats = open end wrench, notches = hook spanner), but any properly made one will have them. You just need two wrenches going in opposite directions to tighten/loosen when the chuck isn't in the spindle. Or for tightening the collet nut on machines without a spindle lock.

[Richard_W]

I have an r8 collet set, this one: http://www.grizzly.com/products/R-8-Qui ... Set/T26688
Note that is not a full range of sizes, and I have never tried drilling with one. Also, I don't think they are ER32, maybe 44. They take around one or two more inches of vertical space than size specific milling tool holders (but less than a drill chuck), but you don't have to pull the draw bar to change the collet size when you want to change to a different diameter mill. Or put a fly cutter or face milling tool on.


- Wes

These don't look like an ER32, but it doesn't say what type collet set it is. I am wanting to be able to hold any diameter with in the collet range, that is why I am looking at the ER32. You can use either inch collets in 1/32" increments or metric collets in 1 MM increments. I am wanting to eliminate using a drill chuck due to length requirements to use them. Especially drill chucks with an R8 shank.

Richard W.

[Richard_W]

The downsides are reduced headroom, as Wes said, and increased flex because of increased tool overhang. You may not want to use such a system if you are hogging a lot of metal.

Pluses include not having to undo the drawbar (again, as Wes said) plus, ironically, not needing a lot of headroom to change tools. Sometimes you have a setup where you can't lower the knee enough to remove an R8-shank tool to change tools and you need to move the X-axis and lose your location.

Tooling with 3/4" shanks (shanks only as long as the collet needs) will let you swap thing out easily. If you need the additional headroom, you can always use those straight-shank tools with your 3/4" R8 collet.

Steve

I am thinking of doing something different than what I have been doing. I either want an R8 collet set in 1/64" increments or go to the ER32 collet setup. If I have hogging to do, I like to use the weldon holders. Then I don't have to worry about an end mill pulling out under heavy cuts. Although the ER32 collets should work fine for hogging, its just the extra length hanging below the spindle that I want to avoid. I think if I went with the ER32 collets I would need 2 or 3 holders to use in multiple part runs.

Richard W.

[Richard_W]

I am thinking this metric set of collets would work for me. It would hand diameters from 2 MM to 20 MM (about .787" diameter)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ER32-19-PCS-Spr ... Swd0BVtfCR

But then this set of inch collets would work as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-25Pcs-ER32- ... SwFNZWz-as

Undecided...

Richard W.

[John Evans]

You want to spend big money get a Quik Switch 200 set up.But it also has the downside of eating up Z . But you can change tooling fast ,no nut-drawbar to mess with. Like a lot of my stuff time I got done selling off duplicates and getting a couple of lot buys what I kept I'm into less than $50 for a fairly complete set from 1/16-3/4 collets and about 8 holders and the R-8 adapter.

[Richard_W]

You want to spend big money get a Quik Switch 200 set up.But it also has the downside of eating up Z . But you can change tooling fast ,no nut-drawbar to mess with. Like a lot of my stuff time I got done selling off duplicates and getting a couple of lot buys what I kept I'm into less than $50 for a fairly complete set from 1/16-3/4 collets and about 8 holders and the R-8 adapter.

I had a kwik switch 2 but got rid of it fast. Holders were to expensive and hard to find the special ones, even on ebay.

[John Evans]

I had a kwik switch 2 but got rid of it fast. Holders were to expensive and hard to find the special ones, even on ebay.

Yep ,they are pricey !! By selling duplicates and a few more excess collets I picked up later I got my cost a WAY down. Bridgeport Boss series used Quik switch tooling as standard so a fair demand for it on Ebay etc. I use it mostly when drilling/tapping hole patterns, makes for quick work with my Vari speed BP.
PS I think I must have been a horse trader in a previous life !

[pete]

A long time ago when I decided to buy my Emco compact 5 lathe/mill I should have checked the accesory costs. Both use the Emco designated ESX-25 collets,I still can't tell the difference between those ESX and ER's. But those ESX's did turn me onto just how versitile these type of collets are. Once I moved up to my 3/4 sized BP clone and a much larger lathe I still wanted the same capability that my little Emco machines had. Since my mill is the same as yours with the R8 taper an ER-32 would have been more than ample. I bought a full set of Bison ER-40's and R8 collet chuck simply because I wanted the extra range up to 1" for work holdingon the lathe as well. To be honest proper R8 collets that ARE well made with low runouts are better in almost every way. But the ER's excell because of there range. When I want spot drilled holes and drilled locations very accurately placed with a good DRO I don't even use good keyless drill chucks. There's an unbelievable difference in just how rigid spot, center, or any drills are held compared to even an Albrecht chuck. Very slow to use and change drills compared to even a keyed drill chuck though. I don't think I'd use the ER's as a full replacement for a good keyed or keyless chuck. When I do want the extra accuracy then the ER's are in my opinion well worth the extra time.

There's also sets of off shore collets that look very much like ER's except they have a bit longer length and slightly slower taper. I'd be sure to buy proper ER's and not what I think may be unique to a few of the offshore cheaper sets. Replacement collets and any extras needed to fill in a limited set for those not exactly ER collets are just about impossible to find. And lots of the cheap sets don't have any specifications for maximum allowable runouts. Whatever you buy I'd make sure to properly clean and test each one if there offshore since there's lots of posts around on various forums saying the user found them either really good/bad. My Emco and Bison sets all check out well under the allowable limits but they sure weren't cheap. Using ER's on a mill just depends on the work your doing. Yes as others have already said they eat up a few inches in Z. And just aren't quite as rigid as the standard R8 collets are. I guess only you can judge if the few trade offs are worth it. They would duplicate your tool holding a bit and add cost, but a limited set of R8 collets for your most used tool shank sizes is still worth having in my opinion.

Many don't know the high torque requirements ER's need to prevent the tool from moving. It's 100 ft. lbs. for ER 32s and 130 ft. lbs. for the 40's. I'm guessing that's why your question about the R8 tightening fixture. So far I've never found one but that doesn't mean someone somewhere doesn't make them. If you were to use ER's for workholding on a lathe you don't need anything close to that torque. Since the collet nut wrenches are all pretty short I just tighten mine as much as I can put into it on the mill and haven't had a tool move so far. But my collet chuck has wrench flats on the body so I just use a large open end wrench on it and the supplied wrench on the nut.The collets also need to be kept clean and free of oil, but it helps a lot to oil the collet chucks threads since that high torque can put a lot of wear and tear onto the threads if you run them dry. From my reading the ball bearing collet nuts are well worth the cost. Mari Tool are supposed to sell good ones at a reasonable price but I haven't used one yet. My 40 sized chuck and nut are quite a bit larger in diameter and length than the 32 size, but sometimes that extra length of the chuck outside the mills head can be helpful. If you don't have a whole lot of R8 shank tooling already then you might consider what Tormach uses and in the ER-32 size. Having repeatable Z axis tool lengths would be helpful even on a manual mill. I've got a fair amount of either integral R8 shank tooling or items like my boring and facing head that takes expensive proprietary shanks. The one shank size is a good idea, but it still doesn't work well for everything. To me adding a straight shank drill chuck,boring head, etc held in an ER collet chuck really starts moving the tool point a long ways away from the spindle bearings. And rarely does the run out stack up with multiple tool holders ever works out in your favor.