Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.
I agree with you Spro. A nodding head is a significant advantage over a fixed head. The head of the mill in question can tilt left or right 45 degrees, which allows it to do many angles without resorting to an tilting vise.
I tend to compare that mill's capabilities relative to a Bridgeport because everyone has heard of them, and it's often the home shop guys wished that they had purchased after buying something else. I was not aware that 2/3 size mills were real common on this forum.
I had my doubts about Bridgeport vs the Import 6x26 so I took a workshop where I could compare the two. I even brought my own endmills, dial indicators and such to level the playing field. That made me happy with my purchase.
Seems like you have it covered. I wonder if a deal with R-8 collets slips past or a really good vise while you are waiting. R-8 is pretty much the way to go with that size. Cincinnati and other great mills used #40 tooling or #30 or Jarno and that's a whole different expense. J.E is brutal correct about things. He pulls no punches and if that machine is even half good, it is better than many other choices.
Oh yes, vises. I've been converted to the Kurt style , grudgingly as I have many heavy mill vises which were proper for heavier horizontal milling or shaper use. There is something else about them when using R-8 in a tight package and precision could be attained. Also the clamping set for the right size Tee nuts/bolts. Same as larger m/d.
The vise I have is a 4 inch mill vise , while it's not a Kurt I must have hit the import lottery with it because it is square, flat and clamps parts without lift
Like any kid anticipating a new toy I've been looking at collets and end mills , there seems to be quite a few 12 piece collect sets out there reasonably priced . I'll have to do some homework on quality.
The endmills I'll probably just buy a cheaper set for the initial learning curve after that I'll just buy the best I can afford to suit the needs of the project I am working on .
I should have checked the size of the t slots ... grizzly lists their 6 x 26 mills as having 1/2 inch slots I'll assume this one will be the same or at least close .
That would work for me , I have a 7/16 clamping kit now and it wouldn't take much time to whip up a mess of new t nuts to suit its slots .
Firstly; nodding is being able to change or tip the head front to back . You know this so we go on to how great is a swivel head that goes left to right and being roughly indexed. I measured the table of my M/D and it is 28 3/4" X 8 1/4" . There are four slots and they take a Tee nuts of 7/8" wide , 1 1/8" long . 7/16" or whatever bolts. Before I got a kit I was making Tee nuts of different sizes. That was one thing the mill was good for. Sometimes they were 3/8 thread and some times, necked down 1/2x13. It depended upon what fixture but the hold down kit will be very good for the money. Even this older m/d is a , well useful tool. It sucks in some ways but I've seen others which are light weight in comparison.
A little more info; the Tee nuts of the "kit" are 9/16" wide at the slot and 1/2" X13 bolts or the studs work. These are 5/8" total height and don't protrude from the table surface. Your table is only slightly smaller and may have 3 slots instead of 4. In that case, it could be the same kit. Don't mean to clutter up a simple thing, really well sized Tee nuts and bolts are important. We have seen evidence of square and even hex head bolts used as Tee nuts and they really cause damage. Things have to locked pretty tight for milling and the reduced surface of a bolt head can warp or crack a table slot. Even if that doesn't happen, it can raise a burr underneath which doesn't allow the proper size to make full contact. Working that out, is a hassle to be avoided. Decent Tee nuts are at least "case hardened" so they don't deflect under torque. I can make a pretty Tee nut of mild steel yet there is no guarantee against it immediately deforming in the middle. Then it isn't a real T nut anymore.
I used a piece of pre-hard 4140 for the t nuts I initially made for my shaper , I can't say I gave any thought to the nuts deforming when I used it , it just happened to be pretty close to the size I needed .
Now that you've planted the thought in my mind I'll probably use it again to guard against that possibility.
On another note .. it might be a good thing I can't pick up the mill for two weeks .
My shop is a disaster. I think it'll take two weeks to get thing cleaned up moved aroumd and organized for another machine .
And I am going to have to very shortly give some serious thought towards tool storage , the 42 inch snap on box I've been using for my lathe and shaper tools is getting pretty full .
I hear you and know about disasters which are evidence of serious work. I could say more about that but right here and now, end mills. Buying inexpensive can be good but you need to have a standard/great ones. There may be a world of difference between the operation of great ones and pretenders. Cheap may operate minutes and then you think the machine is too flexible, something is wrong. Another side track when the tool was dull. Don't fall for this. Have at least two serious good ones as the standards. They didn't build that machine and advertise the capabilities using worn end mills. They used the best and it works together. If you experience top quality, then you will know when the others need sharpening to achieve what you already saw.
Excellent advice about quality end mills, spro. I, and probably others, used what could be found, and mostly they are worn out junk. When I was forced to buy new mills there was a significant difference in performance.
stevenc, I recommend that you heed spro's advice for good results.
--earlgo
Before you do anything, you must do something else first. - Washington's principle.
Spro does tend to give good advice ... my thinking was to get a couple cheap endmills for the initial learning curve and playing around on scrap so I didn't ruin any expensive tools .
I should rethink my thinking .
Well maybe not Stephen,I'm no fan at all of just how long those cheap endmills last or perform against the real good brand name ones just like Spro says. But I have one of those cheap 20 pc sets. Those and some cheap replacements I'll use on rough or abrasive work just to save the good one's. For learning I'd still start with the cheap ones first. Very likely you'll break a few trying to push them too hard. Breaking a $30-$50 endmill makes for a bad day. I've seen many threads where the cheap one's are considered good enough by a great many since it's only for a home shop. Some refuse to even try anything better. One good high quality HSS endmill isn't that expensive to run a test against the cheap ones but few seem to be willing to try that. I finally learned after trying for way too long that the high quality cutting tools, HSS lathe tool blanks, and carbide tips are well worth what they cost.
And try just one OSG tap or die and you'll be spoiled for life. But there's a few other brands almost as good. There's a few forum threads around that show cheap drills where the drills helix started to straighten out drilling mild steel. If your normal threads are imperial then a good 115 pc fractional, number and letter set is well worth the price also.
It is important to understand that "used" doesn't mean bad. There have been astounding used end mills sold in a different forum here and they are a different thing and dress as required. The quality remains.
At an auction I got boxes of re sharpened HS end mills and they were all piled together. There were some good 4-flute and 2-flute but most of them were reground OFF one way or another. Basically I was looking at end mills which were not the normal size anymore. It was like a training exercise of grinding end mills. Relief angles and interior helix were off, many of no form and unusable as an end mill.
That is why only a few of good quality are the ones which can serve better in the long run.
Good news ... the fellow who owns the mill gave me a call today , he will be home from vacation Saturday night and I can come pick up the mill anytime Monday.
Now if I can just get these days to quit dragging by ...
So now I need to get on the ball with collets and a few end mills . I have my eye on a couple mixed lots of new and used end mills on eBay , if they go cheap enough for the gamble .
Collets.. I've given myself a head ache trying to decide on collets . Everybody seems to throw out random numbers when it comes to how perfectly precise thier collets are .
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that unless you buy top of the line it's all a crap shoot .
So I'm going to just buy a middle of the road 8 piece set to get started with and not worry about it .
I see r8 collets at auctions all the time and they rarely bring any money .
With some care I can piece together a full set of American made collets for very little money fairly quickly .
And can anyone who has a 6x26 mill tell me what the frame size is on their motor .
One of the first things I'd like to do is pitch the single phase motor .
