New guy with a new used mill lots of questions.

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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B Mann
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:07 pm
Location: Northern Indiana (Michiana)

Re: New guy with a new used mill lots of questions.

Post by B Mann » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:54 am

pete wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:51 am
This Old Tony on YouTube did an excellent video a few years ago about how to properly check a mill vise and it's well worth searching that one out. Edit, it was easier to find the video than I thought it might be,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5m-kA_Oq_4

Staple this to your forehead,:-) NEVER EVER let hardened cutting tools edges touch each other. That dings those precision sharpened edges. The tools you have are probably dull and dinged up alrady, but it's a good habit to develop and not let them touch each other. Just about as bad is slamming a rusty Morse Taper into a good condition female Morse Taper. Those tapers hold by friction and a wedging action. Gall or tear up that precision ground female taper and it's extremely difficult and very expensive to fix properly. So those tapers should also never touch anything else. Any dings or raised areas on the male tapers have to be lightly stoned off before use or the tool can start to spin in the socket. A mills drawbar helps, but it's far better to not cause the problem in the first place.
I have been going through old tony's videos. He seems to have easy to understand, simple, instructions.

These tools all were bouncing around in a pan. I will treat mine better.

Another question... I was looking at end mills. Looks like that is where I will start... I am going to use them for misc metals, Aluminum and steel. Do I go with HSS or with TIN coated. I heard TIN is not so good with aluminum. Not sure if that is true or not. Also why do the end mills come in 2 and 4 flutes? For use in different materials??

BTW when I bought my lathe the guy tossed in 4 indicators. Nice condition and in the boxes. Only thing I do not have is the mounts. I do have a couple magnetic bases but they do not fit the indicators.

Thanks both of you...

B Mann
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:07 pm
Location: Northern Indiana (Michiana)

Re: New guy with a new used mill lots of questions.

Post by B Mann » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:01 am

Last picture for now. It looks like a horizontal adapter for cutting wheels. Missing some spacers?? I don't think it can be used as is without more spacers. Can they be purchased separately? Anything I need to know??
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RMinMN
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:50 am

Re: New guy with a new used mill lots of questions.

Post by RMinMN » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:08 am

B Mann wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:54 am
pete wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:51 am
This Old Tony on YouTube did an excellent video a few years ago about how to properly check a mill vise and it's well worth searching that one out. Edit, it was easier to find the video than I thought it might be,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5m-kA_Oq_4

Staple this to your forehead,:-) NEVER EVER let hardened cutting tools edges touch each other. That dings those precision sharpened edges. The tools you have are probably dull and dinged up alrady, but it's a good habit to develop and not let them touch each other. Just about as bad is slamming a rusty Morse Taper into a good condition female Morse Taper. Those tapers hold by friction and a wedging action. Gall or tear up that precision ground female taper and it's extremely difficult and very expensive to fix properly. So those tapers should also never touch anything else. Any dings or raised areas on the male tapers have to be lightly stoned off before use or the tool can start to spin in the socket. A mills drawbar helps, but it's far better to not cause the problem in the first place.
I have been going through old tony's videos. He seems to have easy to understand, simple, instructions.

These tools all were bouncing around in a pan. I will treat mine better.

Another question... I was looking at end mills. Looks like that is where I will start... I am going to use them for misc metals, Aluminum and steel. Do I go with HSS or with TIN coated. I heard TIN is not so good with aluminum. Not sure if that is true or not. Also why do the end mills come in 2 and 4 flutes? For use in different materials??

BTW when I bought my lathe the guy tossed in 4 indicators. Nice condition and in the boxes. Only thing I do not have is the mounts. I do have a couple magnetic bases but they do not fit the indicators.

Thanks both of you...
I needed a couple delrin rings made to hold a bearing on my swather and took the old ones to a shop to have them made. The owner took one look and told me that I had a lathe, make my own. You have a mill, make your own holders for the indicators. It will be a nice practice exercise.

pete
Posts: 1805
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:04 am

Re: New guy with a new used mill lots of questions.

Post by pete » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:02 am

4 flute end mills would be when making larger width cuts than the end mills diameter, two flute when cutting something like a keyway where maintaining a specific width is important. I'd suggest generic cheap end mills when your starting out, better and more material and job specific coated end mills once you know what your doing. Some coatings do help when cutting aluminum since it can be bad for chip welding to the cutting edge. WD 40 does help with that on aluminum only. When cutting slots with end mills chip recutting is a definite issue, that ruins the surface finish, slot size and drastically lowers cutting edge life. Best to use a shop vac or blow it out of the way with compressed air, just watch where those chips are being blown into. Proper way oil and cleanliness of your machines slides, feed screws and nuts is the cheapest preventative maintenance you can do. Scored way surfaces means your not operating the machine as you should be. A decent shop made or commercial fly cutter is worth while for much better surface finishes. Myself I happen to think the multiple swirl marks left by an end mill looks like hell. Just be aware that too many YouTube videos show them taking large depths of cut. Even some manufacturers show it.The fly cutter will do it, it's the hammering on the spindle splines and shock loads to the spindle bearings that's bad for the machine. I'm overly conservative with them, maybe .005" depth of cut on steel and up to .010" on aluminum. There only meant as light finishing tools.

Generally for indicators the plunge or drop indicators will use a few diameters on the stem below the indicator body, also they could be sized in metric or imperial nominal dimensions, those take a split hole that clamps the indicator in place, you'll have to measure yours to find snugs and adapters that fit, there not hard to find with a bit of searching or shop made can be done. Dial test indicators mostly use a dovetail clamping system, harder to shop make but not impossible due to the small and fairly specialized dovetail angle. Again they can be found with a bit of work. Used off Ebay should be just fine.

That's a horizontal milling head, very handy addition and quite expensive to buy. Yes one important user caution, that bored hole fits your mills spindle nose very tightly, there's a set screw used to lightly open up the bore so the head can be slipped onto the spindle end. There should be a ground flat on one or both sides on the lower part of the head, that's used to indicate the head and properly align it with the table travel. Once the head is onto the mills spindle make 100% sure to back that set screw off before you tighten the clamping set screws. If you don't it's easy to crack the casting. Spacers can be bought, just search for horizontal milling spacers or arbor spacers. But you'll need the arbors diameter. While the horizontal head can be used as is for drilling or end mill use, for actual heavy horizontal milling with blade type cutting tools there should be a dovetail fitting that fits on the ram of your mill. It will have a bushing that accepts the end of the horizontal arbor. That way the arbor is supported properly at both ends and it's far more rigid so heavier cuts can be made. For now I'd concentrate on just learning the vertical milling part.

When / if you buy a rotary table I'd get at a minimum an 8" table size, the 6" I have doesn't really leave much room for work fixtureing, the 6" can be made to work with shop made sub tables, but the 8" while more expensive is just easier in most ways. I'd also buy one that offers the dividing plates and sector arms if you plan on any gear cutting in the future. Proper dividing heads are useful, but a rotary table with the dividing plates can be made to work almost as well.

JackF
Posts: 1564
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:56 pm
Location: Caldwell, Idaho

Re: New guy with a new used mill lots of questions.

Post by JackF » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:06 pm

If looking for a local mentor you should add your location, city, state to your info.

Jack.

B Mann
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:07 pm
Location: Northern Indiana (Michiana)

Re: New guy with a new used mill lots of questions.

Post by B Mann » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:19 pm

JackF wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:06 pm
If looking for a local mentor you should add your location, city, state to your info.

Jack.
Yes, I have been trying to update it since I registered... I even sent a message to figure out where. I just seen the message has been replied. I have been skipping over it. Location is in the profile wedged in between AOL, twitter and facebook.

B Mann
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:07 pm
Location: Northern Indiana (Michiana)

Re: New guy with a new used mill lots of questions.

Post by B Mann » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:23 pm

RMinMN wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:08 am
I needed a couple delrin rings made to hold a bearing on my swather and took the old ones to a shop to have them made. The owner took one look and told me that I had a lathe, make my own. You have a mill, make your own holders for the indicators. It will be a nice practice exercise.
Sounds like a plan. I am still setting things up. I probably have a half hour on the lathe and I need to start with a couple small projects.

B Mann
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:07 pm
Location: Northern Indiana (Michiana)

Re: New guy with a new used mill lots of questions.

Post by B Mann » Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:28 pm

pete wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:02 am
4 flute end mills would be when making larger width cuts than the end mills diameter, two flute when cutting something like a keyway where maintaining a specific width is important. I'd suggest generic cheap end mills when your starting out, better and more material and job specific coated end mills once you know what your doing.
Thanks for all the information. Page is bookmarked for the future. I just got 220 wired up today. Going to build a phase converter. I have one, but it is in the other building so I can have a dedicated one next to the mill. I will start off with some end mills and see if there are any missing collets.

John Evans
Posts: 2092
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:33 pm
Location: Phoenix ,AZ

Re: New guy with a new used mill lots of questions.

Post by John Evans » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:11 pm

B Mann wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:01 am
Last picture for now. It looks like a horizontal adapter for cutting wheels. Missing some spacers?? I don't think it can be used as is without more spacers. Can they be purchased separately? Anything I need to know??
That is a "Angle Head" The arbor mounted in it is designed to use a outboard support that mounts on the ram dove tails. You can remove it and hold end mills in the regular R-8 colletts . On colletts you really can get by with ones by 1/8 steps, like a 3/16 mill will usually have a 1/4 shank. You can down load a free BP manual on the net from several places.
That angle head has 2 clamp screws and 1 jacking screw to open it up a tiny bit to make mounting easier.Do NOT forget to back it off before tightening the clamp screws. BP style mills even with the out board support for the arbor are very light duty used as a horizontal.
www.chaski.com

pete
Posts: 1805
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:04 am

Re: New guy with a new used mill lots of questions.

Post by pete » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:13 pm

You can of course bore the diameters to fit your indicators if you have boring bars small enough. Most won't have bars that small. So it's a good idea to drill then ream to size to fit the indicator stems. The Starrett or Mitutoyo online catalogs will give you the best design ideas for what your needing if making them. Even adding fine adjustments is more than possible.

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