Milling Vise Squareness

Discussion on all milling machines vertical & horizontal, including but not limited to Bridgeports, Hardinge, South Bend, Clausing, Van Norman, including imports.

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KellyJones
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:10 pm
Location: Snohomish, WA

Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by KellyJones »

OK - next day. Thanks to Pete and Harold for your comments.

Yes, the parallels are parallel. Or at least as close as I can measure.

This morning I moved the vise out of the way and mounted a dial indicator in the quill with a collet and a 3.5 inch arm. First I checked the tilt by rotating the DI 180 degrees. The DI showed the table surface at the same height within .001" over the 7 inch reach. I checked three different locations along the table by moving the Y axis and got the same reading.

Next, I moved the table along the X axis without moving the DI, again, at three locations along the Y axis. Same reading.

Finally, I put a parallel along the Y axis and moved the table under the DI at three different locations and got the same reading. I think the head is trammed correctly, and the table seems to be perpendicular to the spindle axis.

Yesterday I indicated along the ways of the vise as Pete suggested, and got variations of as much as .007". It occurs to me that the vise is in two pieces: the upper business side of the vise, and the lower swivel. Perhaps the problem is between the vise and the swivel? I intent to remove the vise fro the swivel and check both the vise ways and the swivel surfaces independently today.
Thanks
Kelly Jones, PE
A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
(1856-1950)
pete
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:04 am

Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by pete »

I guess it depends on exactly what type of milled parts your doing on average as to the need for the swivel base on any vise. Frankly I think they have far more deficits than gains. Z height and rigidity losses as examples. And most milled angle cuts have accuracy requirements well past what reading the scale on the swivel base will give you. So final setting either with or without a swivel base still has to be done with with some other independent method like fixed angle blocks, sine bars etc. So far I've not missed having a swivel base on any of my mill vises. On a 4" vise that .007" deviation is most definitely a massive amount so something for sure isn't right. Your thought about it being in that swivel base could well be correct. I think if you try mounting the vise without that swivel vise directly to the table you'll notice large gains in surface finish and even accuracy. But that deviation still needs to be identified for what exact area is causing it.
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Harold_V
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Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by Harold_V »

You would be well served to eliminate the swivel base of the vise. It not only costs you height, but rigidity. Beyond that, it's another place to lose precision. It could very well be that the problem you have is the base, not the vise. I strongly recommend you remove it, then try to determine if the vise now sits parallel. Same procedure I suggested---height gauge and DTI on the mill table.

I purchased my first mill and vise with the swivel base. Used it a couple times and determined it was of little value. It sat under one of my work benches for years, until I sold my first mill. I have never desired a swivel base since, and I used my machines for gain.

Just sayin"

H.
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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NP317
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Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by NP317 »

Now that I understand you have a swivel base under your vice, all bets are off!
I would never mount a swivel base under my Kurt mill vice, as they do induce measurable errors.
I think your solution to getting a flat cut just got simpler.
RussN
KellyJones
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:10 pm
Location: Snohomish, WA

Re: Milling Vise Squareness

Post by KellyJones »

ok - found the problem. It is indeed the swivel base. It actually has two problems. First, the bottom surface is not parallel to the vise mounting surface. Second, the keys cause it to not sit precisely flat on the table. Likely a small interference due to a taper or one or both of them don;t sit 90 degrees to the bottom surface. (I quit looking at this point.)

I'll try using the vise without the swivel for a while. I have to admit that i rarely use the swivel capability anyway.

thanks for all the thoughts.

Have a good July 4th.
Kelly Jones, PE
A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw
(1856-1950)
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