Need Instructions for Lagun FTV2 Mill Head Rebuild

[Ironman1]

I hope the folks who contributed to this thread are still active here as I have purchased a FTV-3 with a rumbling sound in the head. It sounds like it is in the motor area, so once I get that off, we will have to see if that is the issue by running it free. The sound does not vary with spindle speed.

As I find out more, I will probably be asking you guys questions.

[platypus20]

Oh Canada!!

[spro]

Possibly. There are motors which are not equipped for vertical operation over a long time. Don't have the proper back thrust bearing and will climb and thump at the same time as he said.

[BadDog]

Most variable speed heads use a reeves drive variable sheave setup. There are various details, but they all tend to be/get "rumbly" over time. Bridgeport J heads have bushings that wear and rebuild kits can improve things dramatically if you catch them before critical damage is done. I had to machine a new bronze sleeve bushing for the similar drive in my Rockwell 11" lathe. Others are just metal sheaves like in my Powermatic I just finished rebuilding last week. It worked, but was very VERY rumbly, disturbingly so. I had already addressed problems on the drive/motor side, which I knew (and confirmed) to be good. But the driven side was worn where the floating sheave slides up and down the support shaft of the fixed sleeve. Loose enough you could take the belt off and feel it sort of rattling around a bit by hand. It was 1.625 nominal, so I turned the shaft under to around 1.600 to clean it up, bored the floating sheave hub to 1.690 (it was the worst by far), bored a piece of scrap 1.750x0.125 DOM (roll bar scrap) to an interference fit with the now 1.600 shaft and heat shrunk it in place, then turned the OD to 1.688 to provide 0.002 clearance for grease. Put it back together and it runs as quiet as any large drill press (or mill) I've ever run. Not sure on your FTV, but the problem is very common.

[Ironman1]

Oh Canada!!

Hi Jack

[Ironman1]

Most variable speed heads use a reeves drive variable sheave setup. There are various details, but they all tend to be/get "rumbly" over time. Bridgeport J heads have bushings that wear and rebuild kits can improve things dramatically if you catch them before critical damage is done. I had to machine a new bronze sleeve bushing for the similar drive in my Rockwell 11" lathe. Others are just metal sheaves like in my Powermatic I just finished rebuilding last week. It worked, but was very VERY rumbly, disturbingly so. I had already addressed problems on the drive/motor side, which I knew (and confirmed) to be good. But the driven side was worn where the floating sheave slides up and down the support shaft of the fixed sleeve. Loose enough you could take the belt off and feel it sort of rattling around a bit by hand. It was 1.625 nominal, so I turned the shaft under to around 1.600 to clean it up, bored the floating sheave hub to 1.690 (it was the worst by far), bored a piece of scrap 1.750x0.125 DOM (roll bar scrap) to an interference fit with the now 1.600 shaft and heat shrunk it in place, then turned the OD to 1.688 to provide 0.002 clearance for grease. Put it back together and it runs as quiet as any large drill press (or mill) I've ever run. Not sure on your FTV, but the problem is very common.

In my case, the noise is not speed dependent, I have run it through the full speed range in both hi and low speed settings and the noise is the same.

[BadDog]

Probably on the primary (drive) side then. My drill press was pretty consistently unpleasantly loud regardless of speed, but the frequency of it's rattle-bang changed quite clearly with speed, especially in the slower ranges. Not sure how an FTV works, but if it truly doesn't change at all, it almost has to be the motor itself, or whatever sets between it and the variable speed portion of the drive. Because if it were in or past that, it would almost have to change with speed. Whether it was the spindle bearings or even if it were something peripheral like the down feed drive, it would be changing speed with the variable speed changes. On all of mine, I just pulled of the covers and access plates, listened/watched it run, and chased it down from there. Sometimes you can see it. Sometimes when you get the other stuff out of the way you can clearly hear it coming from some specific area. And sometimes you get to keep digging, perhaps isolating parts of the drive to see whether it "goes away when I do this" type of investigating.

It's wonderful if you can find someone who knows the FTV, and manuals that cover relevant systems, but seems like most of the machines I've had to sort out either have nonexistent manuals lost in time, or like my Powermatic drill press, have manuals that only focus on consumer with only an exploded diagram to help with diagnostics and disassembly. And isn't Lagun still in business somewhere even now? They might have old manuals. Or talk to rebuilders, though most aren't going to make time for someone doing their own work when that's what they do for a living. Mostly I spend a little time gathering what materials I can, maybe make a post like this (in a forum or 3), but in the end it always comes down to digging in and figuring it out. Good luck with your effort.

[BadDog]

I just did a quick Google search and found this manual for the FTV-2. That includes an x-ray breakdown rather than exploded, but that gives you the basics. If you don't already have it, make sure to save it since web resources tend to evaporate over time.

And a glance at that shows it works pretty much as one would expect. My guess is that if it's not the motor bearings, like my early repairs on the Powermatic, you may find that the motor shaft inside the primary drive sheave is loose and rattling. In your case it may simply be a loose key and/or loose set screws. In mine, someone had swapped the motor to one with too short a shaft which had eventually wallowed out the bore. Motor was fantastic and premium quality, so I had to cleanup the bore, turn down that shaft, press on a new longer extension, weld it up, and turn that down to suit the cleaned up bore, then slot it, and finally make a new key. Problem solved. Well, that one anyway. That's when I realized just how bad the driven side was, probably having been made worse by the beating it was getting from the drive side fow however long it was run that way, that started my latest series of efforts, but in the end, I'm very pleased with it, though I would probably have been better off regarding total resource outlay and time-to-service to have just bought a brand new one and had it delivered...

[spro]

I looked at the manual link and it looks like a job. I'm not sure how the whole motor and VS could come out in one piece because of the belt. If the motor shaft is loosened to remove the motor, serious blocking for belt tension would try to pull on the lower VS seal/bearing? Without further instruction, it appears the quill would need removal. However; with the head at highest speed, it would shift to the smallest spindle pulley and the belt could be flipped there~ interesting.

[BadDog]

In my limited experience, how to work through those things usually become more obvious when you see the actual pieces. I do better looking at exploded diagrams rather than x-ray diagrams like that manual. There was earlier comment made about loosening bolts on one part to achieve some access room, and those type of things just don't come through for me looking at diagrams. So as you suggest, I have no idea how that specific process would work and was only commenting on where I thought the issue must be to produce the described sound. Getting in there and figuring out a fix and getting it back together is "left as an exercise for the reader"...

[spro]

Heck Russ, I didn't even know they put most the VS section on the motor shaft and it isn't particularly long either. I see a bolt up through the shaft end in addition to the keys. There is a lot of tension on those motor bearings, especially when increasing speed. It is somewhere in that section but if the VS is worn, those bearings aren't far behind. That which appears a seal at the lowest point, may be a bearing too.
I think there was some way to replace/repair without taking the whole head off and onto a bench but yes, can't tell from here.

[Ironman1]

Thanks for the replies.
I am sure that I can figure out how to remove the motor based on this thread. I have the manual downloaded, it is available from many net sources. Pretty useless as disassembly info, but does show you what you are getting into. I am hoping it is just the motor as I plan to replace the 600 volt motor with a 220 volt motor anyway.
The main difference between the FTV-2 and the 3 that I have, is that there is a cooling grill created as the front bell end of the motor and has a 2 bolt mount to the lid of the drive.
I am looking forward to getting this up and running, I converted the controls system over to 110v and tossed out the 600x110 transformer so that part is done, tested and working.