A Couple More

Where users can chronicle their builds. Start one thread and continue to add on to it.

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ccvstmr
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Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:54 pm

Time for a little Coaching

Almost to the finish line. Three of four passenger cars were done: (2) shorties and (1) CP baggage car. The last part of this build series was to build the CP coach car to go behind Honest Dave's baggage car. From the start, made it clear the baggage car would be pushed along as quickly as possible and delivered...so Dave could outfit that for his propane hook up and keep on railroading. Then, I could concentrate on the coach car.

Construction techniques for the coach car were just like the baggage car. Dave requested a few deviations from the baggage car (he just HAD to be difficult) as "twists" in the final product would provide minor changes and interesting talking points. So, that's what we'll cover here.

Side Windows

The 1st difference between the two cars was the number of side windows. The baggage car had (12) double hung windows total. The coach would have (12) side windows per side or (24) side windows total. No doubt, there would be plenty of natural light inside the car.

Requested when Dave machined the window cut out template, he machine the template "2-up" for (2) windows on proper centers. That way, only had to position the template once, to make two cut outs. The long clamp was shifted out of the way so work could move along quickly. One window resin casting can be seen being used for a test fit.

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Have to say, wore ear muffs while making all the window cut outs. The buzz of the multi-function cutter easily leaves the ears ringing without proper protection. Here's the car after all the windows were cut out on one side. Using the multi-function saw, if the cut-out did NOT fall thru, was obvious the cuts in the corners were not completed.

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End Windows

Since end windows were NOT part of the baggage car, Dave requested end windows for the coach. There was one problem, there were no more single pane window castings. However, there were a few extra double hung window frames leftover from the baggage car. The decision was made...install (1) double hung window to the left side of the end door on both ends of the car. We figured this would have been the location for a pot belly stove at each car end. Opposite the stove...a lavatory. No end windows there...and the lavatory side windows would be frosted.

With close clearance between the double hung window sill and the end platform railing...decided to remove the lower part of the window sill. Again, a minor twist in the window style. Luckily, the polyurethane window castings cut, sand and finish easily. In the next photo, was trying to see how the car end would come together. Would later switch the double hung window to the other side of the door as noted above.

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Next photo, cut the window opening (on the proper side) but as can be seen, ended up cutting out part of the end wall framing. This didn't concern me as I knew the wall structure would still be plenty strong.

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Da Roof

The underside of the roof was finished as the baggage car. Espresso brown paint for the cabin area ceiling. Satin black elsewhere. The (2) blocks to anchor and support the stove stacks are located in the PROPER opposite corners. Can even see some of the fasteners for the roof vents on the roof spine. What might not be so obvious, is the 1/8" closed cell foam padding running along the side edge of the roof. This way, the roof is somewhat cushioned when set in place. Would think this would minimize paint rubbing along the car top edge...even though that's not noticeable when the roof is in place.

IMG_3647.JPG

Lastly, Dave asked for (4) pairs of roof vents on the coach instead of the (3) pairs as used on the baggage car. The idea was...where more passenger seating was available, there should be more lighting for night running (for a real coach, not the model). Figured the lighting would have used (2) oil burning lamps. Had Dave fabricate enough aluminum roof vents out of 1" diameter aluminum rod. Roof vent fasteners penetrate the roof spine. As such, the roof plywood would not be stressed. Lastly, the roof vents could also be used as hand grabs when lifting the roof off or setting the roof in place.

IMG_3615.JPG

Next time, got help carrying the car body to the garage for final assembly and then transport the coach to the local train club for delivery. That would be the 1st time Honest Dave saw the completed car. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!

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ccvstmr
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Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:54 pm

End of the Line

After getting some help to bring the coach car body and other parts out of the basement shop to the garage, the final assembly took place. The trucks were rolled under each end. Brake hose pigtails facing inward. A 1/32" Teflon fender washer inserted between the truck and car body bolsters. The air lines were attached via the Clippard quick connector on each truck.

The couplers were installed on each end and coupler heights checked against a gauge. A 1/2" x 2" diameter stainless fender washer was slipped up on to the king pin and an "R" clip inserted thru the king pin. Should the car derail, when the car is lifted...the truck is held captive to the car. Sorry...don't believe in using stripper/shoulder bolts or allen cap screws inserted from the bottom up. Gravity can be a wicked enemy. The roof was set on top and strapped down. The car was loaded in the Traverse and locked down for the 12 mile, 20 minute trip to the train club.

At the train club, the coach was unloaded on the club hoist. The hoist, an old time auto garage hoist, serves several purposes for the club: loading/unloading, can spin 360 degrees to be used as a turntable, some guys have raised their equipment high enough to do maintenance work underneath and lastly...the hoist serves as a great place to snap builders photos.

Show Time

This was the first time Honest Dave would see the completed car. Kept Dave in the loop with photos of the build in progress. That is, until construction neared the end...and then, made Dave wait for the end product. After all, was looking for get that "WOW" factor. And so, here's the coach for it's sunlight debut...

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The left most window on each side of the car would have been the lavatory. To frost the plexiglass...sand blasted one side of the glazing.

After Dave walked around the examined the car, he was impressed with the latest addition to his passenger equipment roster. At that point, asked Dave to get the Disney out of the engine house and park that on the steaming bay lead in track. This way, the coach could be rolled behind the train and take up it's proper place in the train order. Here was the result...

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Don't think Dave could have positioned that loco any better over the "ash dump". Perhaps his firebox has a problem with propane clinkers!

"Let's get 'em rolling!"

The story of the Central Pacific passenger car build wouldn't be complete without a photo of the new owner, sporting his signature bowler hat, with his new livery in tow....

IMG_3736.jpg

So far, Dave couldn't be happier!

Where do we go from here? In a few days, will share some follow up comments about this part of the passenger car build project. Hope you guys have enjoyed this trip down the glue, screw, sawdust and paint mist lane! Cheerz! Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!

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Dick_Morris
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Re: A Couple More

Post by Dick_Morris » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:34 am

Beautiful!

DRS_RR
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Re: A Couple More

Post by DRS_RR » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:35 am

Carl,

Thanks for taking the time to document and share your builds, great stuff.

Dave

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ccvstmr
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Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 pm

Dick...thanks so much for the compliment! Believe me when I say I can appreciate comments made by fellow builders here.


DRS Dave...you're most welcome! Should be obvious, I take lots of photos during the build. Chaski limits the number of photos per post to (6). So I try to make the point and photo document the steps. A few subjects dragged out to 2, 3 or even 4 posts to adequately cover what I thought was important for anyone to follow. And yet, there are time when you can never take enough photos. Even though the construction for both cars was several weeks (months) apart, still had to go back and look for how things were done on the baggage car...to move ahead on the coach.


Others...might have mentioned somewhere while writing both build threads...the same techniques used for the passenger cars can be used if someone wants to build a wood sided caboose. When you start with a blank sheet of paper and a pile of material, getting from start to finish can take one of many paths. What I documented was what I felt comfortable with to produce the end product quickly without sacrificing "quality".

Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!

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ccvstmr
Posts: 1787
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:45 pm

Follow Up

As long as I'm here in Chaski-land, might as well follow up with a few comments in general.

Weight

From the start, tried to build the Central Pacific baggage and coach cars as light as possible. Knew the pulling power would be limited to whatever adhesion the Disney 4-4-0 could get to the rails. The local club has many sprung points. Years ago used to tell people rolling stock should weight at least 90 pounds so cars can push the points to the side without riding up and over the points during trailing point moves.

Total weight for the empty baggage and coach cars came in around 115 to 120 pounds each. A little more than expected, but then, these cars were 2 feet longer than the shorties...and those were about 105 pounds each. The trucks were approx. 23# each. Pair of couplers about 4-5#. A set of (4) corner steps was 10#. The roof was another 10# mostly because of the denim covering. The balance...the car body or about 60#.

The baggage car...when loaded with a full 20# propane cylinder...add 40#. The power and air brake modules were about 15# each. That put the total "loaded" weight for the baggage car up to 190#. That's similar to the stock car I pull behind my 10-wheeler. With 30# propane tank and (3) modules (power, air brake and sound system) the car tips the scale around 200#.

So far, the Disney is handling the baggage car, coach car AND engineer without too much trouble on the club 2.5% grades unless the rails are slippery. Suggested Dave couple onto one of my freight cars to see how the Disney pulls. If that works okay...couple up another car. That, or see what a passenger does seated on the coach car. That's good for about 2 more freight cars.

Cost

Total cost for the project was NOT a primary concern. Dave and I were both going for the "appearance". After all, you don't often see scale model passenger equipment on railroads (cabeese not included). For the purposes of this discussion, will discount the cost of the trucks and couplers. The trucks Dave purchased came from Morris Switcher. Morris bought or was the recipient of the original truck patterns from Oakley Little. Presume Morris modified the side frame casting to make it easier to cast as front and back pedestal castings as opposed to a one-piece cast side frame. Don't know if Morris did his own casting or turned that work over to a foundry. What I do know, was Morris would no longer provide the cast elliptical spring. Not sure if those are available from Railroad Supply Corp. or not.

Anyway, purchased materials came in around $1200 for the lumber, materials for resin window casting, paint, aluminum plate for end doors, etc. Naturally, our private stash of steel, aluminum and brass materials were sifted thru to find anything usable. Where we didn't have anything, metals had to be purchased. Still, a $300 material cost for each car (excluding trucks and couplers)...was freaking UN-BELIEVABLE!

Won't get into the cost of build time. Don't keep track of those hours. Besides, it all comes at the rate of enjoyment...with a few moments of frustration and anxiety (which doesn't show up in the photos). A good builder can build most anything. But a CRAFTSMAN...can build himself out of a problem he created so it doesn't show!


Have a couple more subjects I'll touch on next time. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!

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NP317
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Location: Northern Oregon

Re: A Couple More

Post by NP317 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:24 pm

Carl:
As I have told you privately, I REALLY appreciate your efforts to design, build, document and share your work making the wood cars.
Most inspiring and educational!
Please continue...
RussN

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ccvstmr
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Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:58 am

Russ...and once again, thanks for your kind words. Just trying to spread some of the "builder's cheer" around.

Was thinking (and we all know how dangerous that can be)...might be interesting to poll the Chaski community here...how many people have one or more of Kozo's books? Let alone, how many people have built and completed a Kozo design locomotive?

Kozo presented a building philosophy that is truly unique for building steam locomotives. You don't need special castings. Most anything can be derived from basic shapes in most any metal material. The same principles carry over to other facets of this hobby, including rolling stock. But it all starts by visualizing the part and breaking that apart into basic shapes. If hobbyists NEVER build a Kozo loco...the ideas and concepts presented in his articles/books are invaluable.

Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!

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Benjamin Maggi
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Location: Albany, NY

Re: A Couple More

Post by Benjamin Maggi » Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:08 am

That is a GREAT looking train!
"One cannot learn to swim without getting his feet wet." - Benjamin Maggi
- Building: 7.25" gauge "Sweet Pea" named "Catherine"

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ccvstmr
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Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:18 pm

Ben...on behalf of Honest Dave, thank you. Glad you liked the end product. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!

User avatar
ccvstmr
Posts: 1787
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:37 am
Location: New Lenox, IL

Re: A Couple More

Post by ccvstmr » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:05 pm

Follow Up (more)

Have a few more general comments to share.

Build Time

Once again, have to realize some of the Central Pacific cars parts were started long ago. When passenger car construction was started, all (4) plywood floors and center sills with coupler pockets were made. The (3) trucks kits were built up long ago as well. Towards the end of the truck assembly, working outboard, straight air brakes were designed and fabricated for all (4) pairs of trucks.

End sills and railings were fabricated and assembled. Needed (8) of those. Corner steps were also prepared. The same for the right angle end railings. For these last two pieces, needed (16) of each. Sometimes the work seemed more like production line work as opposed to custom built passenger cars. Then there were the of roof vents and stove stacks per individual preferences.

The window castings were a project unto themselves. Had to start by machining patterns (4) different window patterns. Make silicone rubber mold for each pattern. Then start mixing and pouring resin. There were approx. 100 window castings needed for the (4) cars. End doors and baggage doors were machined from alum sheet stock. Openings were cut for window glazing and scribed wood paneling. (12) doors total.

So the Central Pacific car construction started in earnest after the shorties were completed and a few days taken off for a break. The start date for the baggage car body was April 3rd. On June 20th, 11 weeks after the car body work was started...the baggage car was done and ready for transport to the club track.

Took a few days off after the baggage car was out of the shop (swept up the shop and such). Mind you, when the wall frames were built for the baggage car, was already set up to assemble the wall frames for the coach car. The wall frames for both CP cars were assembled at the same time. To keep the coach car parts from getting in the way (or getting damaged), went ahead and mounted the wall frames to the floor and got the plywood skin on. Set the coach aside until the assembly space was available. The coach car construction got going on July 2nd...and was completed on August 15th. The coach car took 7 weeks to complete. Total build time for the (2) Central Pacific passenger cars was 18 weeks.

With the coach car completed and moved to the club track, this freed up space in the shop to get back to some of other personal projects.

Writing Posts

Some Chaski folks have sent notes about my writing. Mentioned in doing engineering work for close to 35 years, wrote a lot of trip reports in that time for business travels. Wrote many specifications. Conducted and drafted safety audit reports...some of which went as high as the CEO (he was ultimately responsible for safety in the company). Wrote safety bulletins. Even prepared overhead slides for various training classes. As such, writing is kind of second nature for me. You know the old saying..."if you can't dazzle 'em with your brilliance, can always baffle 'em with you B-ess" Try to keep the B-ess to a minimum. It's difficult to communicate when you can't talk to people in person and experience has shown many guys shy away from writing. Nobody is getting graded here for content, spelling or grammer! So, my writing style was more like "conversational". Used the 3rd person and tried to eliminate the use of "I" or "ME" as much as possible when explaining construction.

Should be obvious, lots of photos were taken. Can never have enough. We live in a "visual world". Most of us related to images instead of writing. There were several times when previous car build photos had to be examined to see how something was previously done. And yes, some things were not photo documented. Better to have more photos to select from...than not enough and wish you had more.

When it came to the Chaski article, went thru the photo library and selected the photos to use for the subject matter. Chaski limits the number of photos to (6) per post. Photos size is auto adjusted. More posts allowed the use of more photos to tell the story. Thereafter, wrote the text around the photos to explain the steps, details, methods, etc. Was a good chance to think back and review the build project in my mind.

Can only hope aspects of the builds were covered sufficiently for others to try their hand at building some old time passenger cars or even a caboose. The methods are very similar. Whatever you do, start by doing some research. Get drawings wherever possible. A few photos for reference always help. And then, you too can share your car building experience(s) and share here on Chaski.

In Closing

If anyone is interested in other aspects of the build that might not have been covered sufficiently (or something was missed or omitted), speak up, post a note and we'll see what we can do to fill that void. Thanx for following along. It's been fun! Hope to meet you at a track somewhere. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!

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