Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

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utahwestie
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by utahwestie » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:24 pm

Update:
Isn't it funny now time travels so fast......life happens I guess.....

Anyway, spent some time squaring up the cylinders on my Mogul. The bores were not machined square or parallel to either the steam chest mounting surface or the surface that mates to the saddle. The mounting locations that bolt the cylinders to the frame rails were not evenly matched/machined and the mounting holes where not made as per the blueprints. Having machined the new waterjet frame rails to the prints, this was making alignment impossible. The mating surface from the cylinder to the smoke box saddle on the engineers side was not machined at all, left as a rough casting. I can only assume that this is a result of a bad measurement during the original machining of the cylinder or the smoke box. The locomotive looks like it has had many years of service however, evident from the signs of pitting on the valve surface. I am fortunate enough, that most of these surfaces were machined "big" on the large side of the "tolerances" , allowing me to machine the surfaces square,removing any signs of wear and getting it all closer to the dimensions on the prints. I will however have to allow for the material removed from the engineers side cylinder for cleanup and true, on the new cast iron smokebox saddle casting to ensure the correct center line of the cylinders is maintained. Also(I have to check) add some shims to bring them up from the new frame rails if needed.
Attachments
IMG_1894.JPG
cylinders after quick flat sand.
IMG_1891.JPG
IMG_1904.JPG
SETTING UP TO MACHINE FLAT, PARALLEL TO BORE. NOTE AW CASTING ON THIS SURFACE.
IMG_1939.JPG
MACHINED PLUGS TO FILL MISS ALIGNED MOUNT HOLES
IMG_2053.JPG
SQUARING UP ENDS
IMG_2059.JPG
FINISHED EXCEPT MOUNT HOLES NEED DRILL AND TAP
~Anthony~
~Ex Pat Kiwi now living in Salt Lake City, Utah

utahwestie
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by utahwestie » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:24 pm

MORE PICS
Attachments
IMG_2060.JPG
IMG_2232.JPG
IMG_2234.JPG
~Anthony~
~Ex Pat Kiwi now living in Salt Lake City, Utah

Jawn
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:39 pm
Location: Canton, GA

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by Jawn » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:31 am

utahwestie wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:03 am
Hello All,

Frame is finished with the three new castings machined and test fit.

Lower frame spreader, modified design from the original to be used with the water jet frame rails.
On to the cylinders.......
Thanks for sharing that. Having received a waterjet frame set last year (hanging on the shop wall since), I wasn't sure quite how to work that spreader into it. Sometimes a picture helps immensely.

BTW, where did you get the frame zinc coated? What did that cost, if you don't mind? Does it add any appreciable dimension to already-machined surfaces?

utahwestie
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by utahwestie » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:08 am

Jawn wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:31 am
utahwestie wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:03 am
Hello All,

Frame is finished with the three new castings machined and test fit.

Lower frame spreader, modified design from the original to be used with the water jet frame rails.
On to the cylinders.......
Thanks for sharing that. Having received a waterjet frame set last year (hanging on the shop wall since), I wasn't sure quite how to work that spreader into it. Sometimes a picture helps immensely.

BTW, where did you get the frame zinc coated? What did that cost, if you don't mind? Does it add any appreciable dimension to already-machined surfaces?
Hi there Jawn,
It was coated here locally in Salt Lake City, Utah by a metal finisher company. He did it for a case of beer as he thought the project was both intriguing and interesting. The coating itself only added 0.001-0.003" . I machined the frame rails to the higher side of the implied tolerances. Thus allows things to still have clearance once they were coated. I'm not 100% sure it was the right thing to do, or if its even needed as the old frame I replaced didn't show any great signs of rust. I did make a blue print of the frame spreader modifications to the casting that if you'd like I can send you a copy of, allowing it to be used with the water jet frames.

Ant.
~Anthony~
~Ex Pat Kiwi now living in Salt Lake City, Utah

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1766
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by Glenn Brooks » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:12 pm

Ant,

Nice work! One question: what reference surface did you use to determine the true centerline of cylnders? In other words, how did you determine how to machine the surfaces to become square to the bore?

I guess I assume you may have first indicated and tried up the ID of the cylinder bore??

I need to do almost the exact same procedure on my antique loco restoration, and am at a bit of a loss as to how to start.

Thanks,
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

Mike Walsh
Posts: 643
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:14 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by Mike Walsh » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:40 am

I guess it depends how you set up your cylinder. Are you talking about working on the bore surface, or are you talking about the different faces of the cylinder itself? IE Valve Surface, Cylinder Saddle Mating surface, etc...?

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NP317
Posts: 1921
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by NP317 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:22 am

Glenn:
You can see in one of the photos that the cylinder has a bar through the bore, resting on a pair of V-blocks.
That is an excellent set up to register outside surfaces relative to the bore.
RN

utahwestie
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by utahwestie » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:48 pm

Glenn,

let me remember, firstly you are correct, I dialed in on the bore(that's when the discovery was made that the bores were both over size and different) I had to use quite a bit of shim stock in aid of this as the ends were not perpendicular to the bore either.. I then used an edge finder in the mill to "touch off" the edges and this also gave me the distances from center. These were marked with sharpie as they were measured, to make them as per the print. If you look close you can see the one measurement (with the arrow pointing away from the center of the bore) showing me that that surface was already under size.

Using a precision ground bar and some v blocks(making sure that the casting cleared when both side were to be machined) we clamped the cylinder to an angle plate that had been dialed in. Thus making the surface(facing up) that needs to be machine parallel with the bore. When I skimmed the surface that hadn't previously been touched, I skimmed it to the next nominal size(double checking that there was also enough material on the saddle casting to compensate). Allowing it to be square and parallel to the bore for mounting also. I am very fortunate(in my eyes) that only the one surface was under size from the print, all others needed to be machined, thus along with a new smokebox/saddle casting I can "make it right".

Glenn, I hope this helps, if any other questions please ask. I will be sleeving these cylinders to make sure both sides are the same and to take advantage of the piston rings that are available straight from Allen Models of Nevada.
Attachments
IMG_1913.JPG
DIFFERENCE OF MEASUREMENTS MARKED ON PARTS.
IMG_1902.JPG
TESTING THE FIXTURE METHOD
IMG_2053.JPG
TRUING UP ENDS OF CYLINDERS
~Anthony~
~Ex Pat Kiwi now living in Salt Lake City, Utah

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1766
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by Glenn Brooks » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:07 pm

Ant, yes, this is very helpful. Mike and Russ, I probably need to re-machine the cylinder bores (main cylinders and brake cylinders). They have extensive fine rust residue in them from 100 + years of being closed up and no oil. So am anticipating some scoring and fine pitting.

I actually haven’t stripped down the Loco, so hoping I don’t actually run into Ant’s problem with external surfaces not parallel with the frame. But, either way this set up seems to be the most critical part of the procedure.

I like the way Anthony walked through the process - particularly the ground round stock through the ID.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

utahwestie
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by utahwestie » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:41 am

With the new Yoke support being used with the water jet frame rails, new yokes were also purchased. All cast iron, liking the idea of adding some tractive effort with the extra weight of these new castings. Smoke box saddle, apron, front beam are all being replaced.
Attachments
IMG_2227.JPG
Before and After.
IMG_2228.JPG
~Anthony~
~Ex Pat Kiwi now living in Salt Lake City, Utah

utahwestie
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:55 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Ut

Re: Rebuild of an Allen Mogul.

Post by utahwestie » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:56 am

New Cast iron front beam and couple pocket where machined and finished. These new castings from Allen Models of Nevada are going to add some good weight to the front end of this loco, hoping to aid the tracking of the front truck. I've been aiming to only replace what was necessary on this loco to make it steam and running worthy, hoping to retain as much of the original build as possible. It may turn out that I'll need to make and install the equalized front truck, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it....

Thanks for looking and all the comments.
Attachments
IMG_2124.JPG
IMG_2125.JPG
~Anthony~
~Ex Pat Kiwi now living in Salt Lake City, Utah

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