3/4" Scale J1e

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Rwilliams
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Re: 3/4" Scale J1e

Post by Rwilliams » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:30 am

Today when most rely on CNC machines to generate such odd shapes as the female die section, one can create the desired shape with ease. Before CNC we were forced to grind form tools for such internal shapes. I would use the closest size ball mill in the lathe to rough out as much of the die as possible. This would leave less work for the custom radius form tool to have to deal with. The size of the form tool is not that great considering the size of the pencil. Using aluminum for the die and a form tool ground to match the pattern he already cut out, the finish cut on the die was easy. A bit of WD-40 to encourage the finish cutting of the form tool always helps. After making of the male die, the female die had to be a slam dunk with the from tool.

Form tools can be your best friend and in the case of the die, being slightly off on the curve will not make much difference in the copper sheet being formed. I am sure Jack made the female die work look easy as well.

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JBodenmann
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Re: 3/4" Scale J1e

Post by JBodenmann » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:30 am

Hello My Friends
The female die was not cut to the reflector profile. It just had a flat bottomed hole. The male die did all the forming of the reflector profile. I'll get some photos today of that, and also the trim die. I have used this same set up for all by reflectors. The large five inch reflector for the big Sunbeam headlamp required a draw plate to keep the edge from wrinkling, but small things like this don't.
Jack

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NP317
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Re: 3/4" Scale J1e

Post by NP317 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:03 am

Brilliant!
In all meanings of the word.
RN

Asteamhead
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Re: 3/4" Scale J1e

Post by Asteamhead » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:41 pm

Just forget to add the photos, sorry :roll: !

Asteamhead
Attachments
A tools for boiler covers_1061red.jpg
A tools for making boiler covers, steps of making
A boiler covers, turning the raw plates_1055red.jpg
A boiler covers, turning the raw plates
A covers for wash out plugs, result_1075red.jpg
A boiler covers, assembly of equal parts
44 tools for making all sorts of vovers red.jpg
Assembly of tools for making different sorts of covers for my class 44 decapod

Asteamhead
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Re: 3/4" Scale J1e

Post by Asteamhead » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:47 pm

Hello Jack,
Your shiny reflectors are looking great, indeed!
For I used a similar method for making all sorts of covers (from soft stainless steel), some more photos may be useful to other modelers :?: .

Asteamhead

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JBodenmann
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Re: 3/4" Scale J1e

Post by JBodenmann » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:01 pm

Hello My Friends
Thank you very much for the compliments, and also the contributions to the thread. Cool parts Asteamhead. And thanks Greg for the tip about the LED's. Here are some better photos of the headlamp dies. The first photo shows the reflector press dies. As you can see the female die is not profiled, it's just a recess. You have to leave some clearance between the ID. of the female die and the OD. of the forming part of the male die. The thickness of the material plus .010" or so. Also the edge of the hole in the female die should be rounded a bit. You would be surprised how much force it takes to press these little reflectors. To get the outer lip of the reflector to lay down flat takes about all my twenty ton press has. The two inch reflector of the 1-1/2" Sunbeam headlamp takes more than twenty tons to get the outer lip to lay down nice and flat. Next we have the trim dies. This holds the reflector for trimming the OD. Very simple, one end goes in the lathe chuck and the other end is held against it with the live center in the tail stock. These reflectors are made of .030" copper.
Attachments
Dies.jpg
TrimDie1.jpg
TrimDie2.jpg
TrimDie3.jpg

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JBodenmann
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Re: 3/4" Scale J1e

Post by JBodenmann » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:16 pm

Here is what I did today. The J1's all had a peculiar junction box in the fireman's side hand rail down next to the smoke box. The junction box that I am more familiar with had a screw on lid with a square boss. This junction box had a flat lid with two screws holding it down. So the same sort of bag O' tricks was used as the throttle packing ring a while back. Instead of four lugs this one only has two. But then there are four bosses sticking out from the sides of the box. Two for the handrail, one outlet for the headlamp, and one for the class lamps. Photo #3 shows milling and drilling the recesses. There were two different size assemblies, one for the body of the junction box, and one for the lid. The lid is .040" bigger than the box. The bottom photo shows the bosses stuck in recesses with #00-90 screws. Two bosses are .125" Dia. and two are .100" Dia.
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JBox1.jpg
JBox2.jpg
JBox3.jpg
JBox4.jpg
JBox5.jpg

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JBodenmann
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Re: 3/4" Scale J1e

Post by JBodenmann » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:25 pm

And here we have our little junction box fitted up to the hand rail. The top outlet is for the flex conduit to the class lamps. The outlet pointing down at a 45 degree angle is for the flex conduit to the headlamp and number boards. I plan on putting the headlamp on one circuit and the class lamps and number boards on another. That way when you go in the siding to let the Twentieth Century Limited by, you can turn off the headlamp and leave the number boards and markers burning. No shortage of things to do...
Jack
Attachments
JBox6.jpg
JBox7.jpg

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JohnHudak
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Re: 3/4" Scale J1e

Post by JohnHudak » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:28 pm

Jack, When you formed the headlight reflector, did it need more than just the one annealing?
Thanks..

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JBodenmann
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Re: 3/4" Scale J1e

Post by JBodenmann » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:15 am

Hello My Friends
To answer John's question the little headlamp reflector only needed one annealing. If you start out with full soft copper then you won't need to anneal at all. Here I had half hard copper, that's what was laying around. Now here is something else you may find useful. Most locomotives had cylinder and valve chest covers, and there are different ways of making these. I have machined them from solid round material and that is a fine way of making them, but it wastes an awful lot of material. Brass and copper have gotten pretty expensive over the years. So here is another way of making them, by spinning them up from sheet metal. I think this is an easier way of making them, but that's just me. Use the materials and techniques you are comfortable with. The important thing is that you just do it, how you do it is secondary. First figure out the diameter and depth of the cover and make spinning die that is the ID. of the cover. Then cut out some discs as seen in the top two photos. The third photo shows a bit of aluminum being turned to the correct OD. The fourth photo down shows the set up for spinning the covers. The spin die chucked up, the roller, which is a ball bearing with an aluminum tire stuck on. A case hardened steel tire is better but this is what I had already made up. You have to be a bit careful with an aluminum roller as the surface can become roughened and charged with little chunks of metal. This will marr the surface of whatever you are spinning and the wheel should be cleaned and polished occasionally. And then we have the live center that will press the holder against the work piece. And the last photo shows the work piece being annealed. Always darken the shop when doing this so you can see when the metal comes up to dull red. Then they get a swim in the acid pot to clean them up and they are ready for spinning.
Attachments
Cover1.jpg
Cover2.jpg
Cover3.jpg
Cover4.jpg
Cover5.jpg

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JBodenmann
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Re: 3/4" Scale J1e

Post by JBodenmann » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:44 am

Here is some more. Our top two photos shows a cover after the first zoom with the roller. As you can see it isn't quite snuggled up against the spin die and it has a few wrinkles. So it was annealed and zoomed again with the roller and die. This had to be done twice before we get to the next photo. You can see that the cover is very smooth where it had been in contact with the roller. It is important that the roller be smooth also, otherwise it will transfer any irregularities to the work piece. You have to use quite a bit of force to get the cover to conform. Now a parting tool is used to cut the excess material from the cover. The next photo shows the cylinder head covers and the die and holder. There is a pin in the center of the die the same size as the stud and nut that will hold the finished cover in place. The holder should also be relieved in the center so it only presses around the edge of the work piece. The back side of the holder has been center drilled for the live center. The diameter of the holder should come to the edge of the flat part of the cover. And the last photo shows our little gaggle of covers, for both the cylinders and valves. Still more polishing to do. The rear covers will get the hack and whack treatment as they must fit around the crossheads. I'm not quite sure how to do this yet as the crossheads on the model are very oversize and the covers can not be made as on the prototype. One of them little puzzles to be solved. Also I like to make a raised bit around where the nut holds the covers in place. Most full size engined didn't have this but it's something I like as it just gives the covers a more finished appearance. This will require another set of form dies and I'll post some snappies. The studs that hold the covers in place are #2-56 and I'll be making some little acorn nuts for this, too much fun.
See Ya' Later Alligator.
Jack
Attachments
Cover6.jpg
Cover7.jpg
Cover8.jpg
Cover9.jpg
Cover10.jpg

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JBodenmann
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Re: 3/4" Scale J1e

Post by JBodenmann » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:24 pm

Hello My Friends
Here is bit more of the cylinder head covers. Earlier I mentioned a raised area around the central mounting bolt. Here is the press die to form it. There is a male and female die with a guide pin. In the top photo you can also see a test piece. Once everything looked good the actual head covers were pressed. Two of each head will eventually have most of the center cut out to clear the crosshead guides but I went ahead and pressed them all. I just like the finished look that this gives the covers. Still to be made are the #2 acorn nuts that will hold the covers in place.
Jack
Attachments
Dimple1.jpg
Dimple2.jpg

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