Basket case 2-4-0

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cbrew
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Re: Basket case 2-4-0

Post by cbrew » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:37 am

makinsmoke wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:47 pm
I was comparing compression and flare fittings on McMaster Carr a couple of weeks ago. The standard brass flare fittings had no mention of being good for steam service, in fact the max working temp was below 400 degrees if I recall.

The standard brass compression fittings were rated for steam service and had a higher max working temp.

I thought that a little odd, as Allen and others have spec’d brass flare fittings in the smokebox for decades.

I can dig up the actual info if anyone cares.
Brian
from personal experience,
I will never use brass compression fitting in steam service again. it did not see to take too many heat cycles to start seeing leaks.
I have no issues with off the shelf hardware brass flare fittings.
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.

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NP317
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Re: Basket case 2-4-0

Post by NP317 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:17 am

That's useful info, Chris.
My newly acquired steam launch has a boiler and engine built in mid-1960s.
All the large steam lines to the engine use flare fittings.
All the small steam lines to things like the oil atomizer use brass compression fittings.

I'm paying attention.
~RN

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cbrew
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Re: Basket case 2-4-0

Post by cbrew » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:26 am

NP317 wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:17 am
All the small steam lines to things like the oil atomizer use brass compression fittings.
They maybe fine. that is a low pressure circuit. imho
but i still prefer the flared fitting over the compression. it seems to be real easy to over tight the compression fitting.
If it is not live steam. its not worth it.

James Powell
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Re: Basket case 2-4-0

Post by James Powell » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:50 am

Good compression fittings are certainly rated high enough for steam, even in brass. (B-400-xx-xxx, like I knew the Swageloc series #'s by memory...9 is a 90% el, the 400 is 1/4" tube). The stainless ones certainly are rated vastly higher than what model steam uses, I used them extensively on 600 PSI steam. One had to be wary of temperatures though, as the valves were only rated to 800 F, and our steam temps went to 865F on the superheated side.

A lot of the use of either flair or compression fittings on steam has to do with industrial application. I'm not sure I really like the big box store ones in either case, but they most likely are OK. The closest to disaster with a fitting I have had was a boiler safety valve made by Stuart Turner that sheered off at the base of the threads at somewhat below working pressure. Fortunately, my face wasn't anywhere near over the boiler at the time, as it made quite the clang on the porch area where it hit. I would assume stress concentration at base of thread, and de zincing took its toll. I most definitely was not clouting it with anything to try and get it to shut at the time. (unlike the 57 other times when it lifted...)

James

OddDuck
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Re: Basket case 2-4-0

Post by OddDuck » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:12 pm

Almost had it running today on air. Almost. Really. Well, a half cycle, almost. I still have timing issues, the engineer's side seems okay, timing wise, but the fireman's side is still off, and I can't seem to get it dialed in. I read a few articles on timing, and watched a few videos, so I'm not just winging it.
After futzing with it for a while, I began to look back through the system to see where the fault may be, and the slide blocks for the eccentric slide have a lot of slop in them. I'm wondering if they were installed wrong before I got them, because I don't think this thing was run enough to wear them out to this point, and maybe they weren't put in in the right orientation. I'm going to try disassembling it and putting them in the right way to see if this will fix it before making new blocks.
Now, my google-fu and search skills are letting me down, but I remember a thread about someone using round stock to make the slide blocks. Does the "block" actually need to be a square shape, or would a round slide block work just as well? Stephenson valve gear, by the by.
"If you took the bones out they wouldn't be crunchy!" -Monty Python's Flying Circus

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Builder01
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Re: Basket case 2-4-0

Post by Builder01 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:45 am

If the cylinder ports are rectangular, the slide valve should be the same.

OddDuck
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Re: Basket case 2-4-0

Post by OddDuck » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:42 am

Not the d valve, the slide block in the eccentric link. I may have my terminology wrong.
"If you took the bones out they wouldn't be crunchy!" -Monty Python's Flying Circus

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Builder01
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Re: Basket case 2-4-0

Post by Builder01 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:09 am

Oh, the die block in the expansion link. Well, it can be round, but, it will wear more quickly than a rectangular one. On a rectangular block, the wear is distributed all along the edge. On a round block, it may be in just one place on the diameter. Round will work in a pinch, though. David

OddDuck
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Re: Basket case 2-4-0

Post by OddDuck » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:23 am

It lives! Kinda sorta. After extensive frigging around with the timing, and retightening all the packing glands, it runs on air! Probably not perfect, but it runs! Now on to the next things, like building an axle pump.
https://youtu.be/lcISdl7P6mU
"If you took the bones out they wouldn't be crunchy!" -Monty Python's Flying Circus

Glenn Brooks
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Re: Basket case 2-4-0

Post by Glenn Brooks » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:48 am

Nice work on your restoration!

Any idea how old the loco is, or who the original builder was, or if it was a kit or hand built? Maybe your boiler construction would help date the original build??

The truck design on the tender seems to suggest the loco might be an early day model.

Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

OddDuck
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Re: Basket case 2-4-0

Post by OddDuck » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:03 pm

Glenn, my best guess (from what I was told about it) is that maybe it dates from the 40's to the 60's. No clue as to the original builder, and it looks like a one off, perhaps whoever built it had plans of some sort, and the drivers and cylinders were probably commercial castings. The boiler is welded, no markings that I can see. The boiler may not be original to the loco, not sure.
"If you took the bones out they wouldn't be crunchy!" -Monty Python's Flying Circus

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Bill Shields
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Re: Basket case 2-4-0

Post by Bill Shields » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:39 am

As Marty Knox mentioned...it is a 2X Raritan, which pretty much sets its building time accordingly...
Too many things going on to bother listing them.

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