Second Reconstruction of the Mongrel 2-6-0 "Emma"

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Andy R
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: So. Calif.

the sound of the burner operation

Post by Andy R »

Hi Carl,
I did not check E-bay. McM has always delivered reliably, so it's my first choice.
I had, like you, anticipated operating on the sound of the burner operation plus the ability to raise steam - but because this burning of LP is new to me I'll gladly accept suggestions.
In regard to your comment about lab gauges, I anticipate having to be careful to not open the valve so much that the gauge would be damaged. There is no pressure regulator after the one attached to the tank. I suppose if it is set to no more than 60-inches of water then all should be good.
Regards,
Andy
Andy R
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: So. Calif.

Boiler news

Post by Andy R »

As mentioned earlier, Ed Perry had indicated that a slight delay in the fabrication of the boiler should be expected, but not having heard from him through December of 2018, I sent him a letter with a self-addressed stamped envelope for a reply - What's happening?

I got no reply.

And I started calling in 2019, a few times - no answer. Well, I suppose he's in his shop. Anxiety.

Then in April he called! "How much do you like that smokebox throttle? Wouldn't you rather have a Gene Allen style dome throttle?"
We discussed the proposal, and I authorized a price increase for the throttle, fabricated and installed.

Patience is a virtue.

Sometime in June he called again: "Send me the firebox door and I'll mount it on the boiler."
That went in the mail the next day !

Then he called again. It's done. Come and get it.
I was up the 5 freeway like a rocket, marking September 12, 2019 as a great day. My new boiler! Woo hoo!
Ed and I went to lunch at a great steakhouse (Harris Ranch) to celebrate, and I drove home a happy boy.
ccvstmr
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Re: the sound of the burner operation

Post by ccvstmr »

Andy R wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:16 pm Hi Carl,
I had, like you, anticipated operating on the sound of the burner operation plus the ability to raise steam - but because this burning of LP is new to me I'll gladly accept suggestions.
In regard to your comment about lab gauges, I anticipate having to be careful to not open the valve so much that the gauge would be damaged. There is no pressure regulator after the one attached to the tank. I suppose if it is set to no more than 60-inches of water then all should be good.
Regards,
Andy
Andy,

By "lab gauges" I was referring to Dwyers line of Magnahelic gauges. Not only are these physically larger (something like 4" diam) they're also available in a multitude of pressure ranges.

The pressure regulator on/at the propane tank is intended to reduce the tank fuel pressure to something better suited for the burners. While I have rosebud/slotted cap burners in my firebox, these are typically rated for up to 1/2" psi pressures (approx. 13" w.c.). My primary pressure regulator is set for 2.5 to 3 psi...but can be set lower. This pressure is way more than the burner rating. Need to realize these burners are designed for heating systems like furnaces and hot water heaters. They are primarily used to produce a fixed heat output at one temperature and fixed fuel flow. To my knowledge, I've never had the flow control valve more than 1/2 open.

Our hobby locos operate outside the intended application where we need to vary heat output by regulating fuel flow. As such, you're going to need some kind of readily accessible flow control valve to adjust fuel flow. I use Hydac hydraulic flow control valve in the cab floor to provide such fuel flow control. Other flow control needle valves SHOULD suffice (check the medium rating: air, water, gas, etc). This valve has a "belly button" in the knob center that extends the farther the value is open. In time, you learn to listen to the burners to know how "hard" they're working. The best indication of your heat output will be boiler pressure and safety valves. The next photo shows the Hydac valve...with the large knob in the center of the cab floor with the red top.

IMG_1024.JPG

Once the boiler is up to pressure an on the railroad, most of my fuel flow adjustments are usually done a 1/2 turn, open or close, at a time.
Make sense? Hope that helps. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
I don't walk on water...I just learned where some of the stepping stones are!
I love mankind...it's some of the people I can't stand!
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NP317
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Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:57 pm
Location: Northern Oregon, USA

Re: Second Reconstruction of the Mongrel 2-6-0 "Emma"

Post by NP317 »

I monitor the propane burner operation by sound, sight (fire visible through the firedog peephole), smell from the stack, boiler pressure, and with a propane pressure gauge of limited value. So far it all works easily.
The propane burners on my two steamers use a brass propane flow control valve available from Jeff Dute, Locoparts.
312-211.jpg
312-211.jpg (32.71 KiB) Viewed 13511 times
The installation is under the fireman's side of the cab. I added a small bypass valve to control a pilot light in the burner.
Very convenient because I never again have to worry about having to relight the burner after turning it down too far. (Ref. my Ten Wheeler...)
The picture below shows the plumbing arrangement.
Plumbing LSide small.jpg
The propane control valve is the lowest valve held by a black bracket.
It's stock handle was replaced with a rod reaching up through the cab floor to a "T" handle so I can easily see its position.
From right to left: the bypass valve is visible on the right side, then the control rod, then the tubing up to the burner pressure gauge, then the tubing to the burner.
This arrangement is working very well.
RussN
Andy R
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: So. Calif.

propane controls

Post by Andy R »

Carl and Russ,
I'm modifying the burner controls based upon your suggestions and will report on the "final" configuration.
Thanks for your interest!
Regards,
Andy
Andy R
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: So. Calif.

Wrapping Emma's New Boiler

Post by Andy R »

I decided to complete the wrapping before the boiler was mounted. Ed Perry and others recommended cork as an insulator. Sheets of the stuff, 1/8-inch thick are available at the hardware store. I made paper templates, cut the cork sheet to match the templates, then adjusted to fit, then adhered it to the OD of the boiler with 3M spray adhesive. It is really sticky stuff.

For the wrapper I decided instead of attaching the handrail stanchions to the boiler, to attach them to the wrapper. Thus I chose 18 gauge steel as an adequate thickness for the wrapper, assuming that it would be threaded for the stanchions. A large sheet was purchased from Industrial Metal Supply, and was cut to size on a friend’s large shear. Another good friend rolled it to the proper diameter. So far so good.

I made another paper template, and carefully transferred the holes to the sheet. Then I again carefully cut the holes and repeatedly test-fit the wrapper. By this time I knew that a one-piece, 18-ga wrapper would never be duplicated by me. It is a giant spring. It was not easy spreading it to place it around the boiler, and even less easy to remove it. Should there ever be another 1.5-inch scale loco in my shop it will have flimsy 26 gauge sheets, one half sheet each side with an overlap at the top, and one separate sheet between each boiler band.

At least the original boiler bands still fit.

Once it was all fabricated, I wanted to mimic the blued steel of the original wrapping. Blued sheet steel of course is not really available, but the coating that Jack Bodenmann used for the 4-4-0 that he had recently done was available from Brownells. It is a 2-part spray, called “Durablue Aerosol – Blue.” It is intended to be a substitute for gun bluing. It is not inexpensive. I ended up needing another can, and Brownells was out of the stuff, so the second can was purchased directly from the manufacturer: lauerweaponry.com.

Because I was finishing my Large Boiler Virginia at the same time, both wrappers were finished the same time. The finishing was:
• Degrease.
• Phosphoric acid etch.
• 2 coats of self-etching primer.
• 2 coats of silver paint on the inside (to reflect radiant heat back to the boiler shell).
• Mask.
• Six (light) coats of the Durablue on the exterior.

It is really a nice coating…almost like Russia iron. After the painting was done I re-read the “Comments and New Information” section in John H. White Jr.’s book American Locomotives, an Engineering History 1830-1880 (p. 521, second edition). He wrote that “…an automobile finish that closely resembles Russia iron is Dulux Enamel Charcoal Metallic No. 4980-DX. That would be interesting to try.
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NP317
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Re: Second Reconstruction of the Mongrel 2-6-0 "Emma"

Post by NP317 »

I look forward to seeing pics of your results.

My Ten Wheeler boiler is insulated with 1/4" cork sheets. They are simply wrapped around the boiler and held in place with tape, until the jacketing fully secured them.
The insulation and jacketing replicated the prototype sections, which made manipulating everything MUCH easier. And individual jacket sections can be removed if ever required.
The cork has worked well, and shown no degradation over 15 years of heat cycling.

You can review my "90-ton 2-8-2 build" blog here, to see pictures of the same process but using 1/4" thick ceramic blanket for the insulation.
RussN
Andy R
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: So. Calif.

A steam pump for Emma

Post by Andy R »

Another thing that I purchased while waiting for the boiler is a pump from Brian Keim. I enquired about a water pump, to be mounted on the port (fireman's) side, and he told me in late November of 2018 that he could have it to me by Christmas. It actually arrived a few days after that. Brian's work appears to be top notch. He included a 1-inch aluminum angle, milled to fit, and attached using 3 of the top cylinder heads. I was uncomfortable with that, not wanting to put those fasteners in bending.

I visited a lot of full-size steamers to specifically look at the mounting - cast lugs that would likely be impractical to mimic with Brian's machined parts.

I ended up making a pair of brass saddles, of different diameters, which were silver-soldered to a brass plate. The three bolts in the cylinder head are still used, but only for stability. The pump now rests on the top saddle, and the bottom saddle just presses on the bottom of the pump, keeping it from rotating.
IMG_4058.jpg
The only attachment to the loco is a pair of 5-40 bolts to the wrapper near the top saddle. All of the weight bears on the footplate.

Before anybody notices - the steam feed pipe in the photo passes through the cab window only for initial testing. When the photo was taken I still hadn't even installed the handrails. Pipe fittings were obtained from PM Research.

The photo also shows the nice color of the wrapper.
Andy R
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: So. Calif.

Piping the steam pump

Post by Andy R »

I should mention that the steam pump is mounted on the port side, but I forgot to have Ed Perry include a fitting on the port side for it, so if you look carefully at the photo in the previous post the water discharge disappears under the belly of the boiler and feeds a check valve on the starboard (engineer's) side of the boiler. That's where Emma's original boiler had two fittings for water injection.

The othe rpiping decision was where to putt the exhaust line.
IMG_4059.jpg
In quite a few locos the exhaust entered the side of the smoke box, but I wanted to be able to visually confirm the exhaust, so piped it up the backside of the stack. I made brass pipe supports to mimic standard, off-the-shelf pipe brackets. The pipe is a mix of brass and copper and PMR fittings. It doesn't look too bad.
Andy R
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: So. Calif.

New Manifold Arrangement

Post by Andy R »

A new boiler allowed reconsideration of the manifold. NPT fittings allowed moving the manifold towards the backhead instead of being directly over the outlet in the boiler shell. Several old threaded holes including those at the (now) top of the manifold were closed with threaded plugs and silver soldered, and new outlets were NPT tapped.
This is a picture of the result showing the running condition - the engineer’s view:
IMG_4158.JPG
This is the view with the roof hinged up as would be the case during steam-up:
IMG_4159.JPG
Left to right:
1. Port injector valve (Superscale)
2. Pressure gauge connection
3. Whistle valve with chain and wood handle below (PM Research)
4. Steam pump valve (Superscale) leads to PM Research displacement lubricator and Keim pump
5. Blower valve (Superscale)
6. Starboard injector valve (Superscale)

And in the rear left – water gauge connection to the top of the boiler, and rear right on the manifold the steam brake shutoff valve (Superscale). The electrical junction boxes mounted on the cab wall are shop-made. Wiring is not yet complete. And yes, the steam pump feed still exists through the cab window- yet another thing to remedy.
Andy R
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: So. Calif.

Bildwan Locomotive Works

Post by Andy R »

Somebody noticed that I had not completely cited the article about the original build:
"A Mogul named "Mongrel" from the BILDWAN Locomotive Works by H.A. "Dutch" Boysen."
It is in LIVE STEAM magazine's October 1979 issue, pages 36-37.
Andy R
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: So. Calif.

Finally firing up the Mongrel 2-6-0 "Emma"

Post by Andy R »

In November of last year Emma was finally transported to OCME and hydrotested. The test revealed a leak in the manifold at a repair of a previous repair, so the cab and all of the fittings attached to the manifold were removed to allow taking home the manifold.
I eventually found time to fix the manifold, then reassemble everything. This last Saturday morning she was fired up. It has been 4 years since the hydro revealed the leaking tubes in the old boiler.

Many more leaks were found in the piping on Saturday morning, so she was depressurized and dewatered, and the leaks fixed. After lunch she was again fired up and after adjustments, everything worked, so onto the track we went. FastAdam, who occasionally posts here about his Raritan was a big help.
Emma May 1 2022.jpg
Because I am a propane novice I had a bit of trouble keeping steam up. Consultation with others indicates a different pressure reducing valve installation may be needed.

The good news is that the brand-new Keim steam pump works flawlessly. What a pleasure to see and hear it work - kathump, kathump, kathump, etc. Hat's off to Brian for a superior product.
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