Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

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gcarsen
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:39 pm
Location: Tigard, Oregon

Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

Post by gcarsen »

Finally , really getting back to the hobby , and coming to the realization that I need to get something built and finished by train mountains next triennial for me and my boy to operate and have fun. everything I have on the bench or backburner is just too large or complex of a project to get finished by then. but looking at everything I have in stock or available, building an Allen ten wheeler just boils down to the smart move. but want it to be modeled after something specific, and my Favorite is Southern Pacific Locomotives. I have spent along time going through all of the SP's ten wheelers and never could find a class that would really work well with the base Allen design. A while back I was lucky and was able to purchase a package of model drawings for the SP fire train of ebay. after much research I found they where drawn by a Korean brass model supplier for one of there imported brass models. drawings are very nice and detailed. and everything looks pretty good scale dimension wise. I have prototype drawings for the tank cars in regular service to double check on. there where 4 of these ten wheelers used for fire service on the road. all where old T1 classes that where kept and rebuilt for this service. the T1 class was originally built by Cooke in 1897 . these locomotives had about the longest service on the SP. as built was originally used for freight service on Donner pass. with in a few years they where bumped by larger engines into other service. they where used up in Portland alot for passenger service and on the back lines. its a clean looking choice! and should be a quick clean build that will stand out from other Allen ten wheelers built!
the goal and intent will be to keep as much of the original Allen design and components for this build and yet stay in a pretty close representation of the prototype. with out going into a crazy complete perfect scale model that maybe only 1 or 2 people out there would be able to nit pick the details.
major changes ,
1. new drivers with square counterweight, Allen has them but I will have to modify the heavy to look right
2. change engine brake cylinders to horizontal style, may be able to easily alter originals
3. single bar cross heads and guides , easy alteration to fit stock Allen dimensions but will give a huge change to the look! and yet keep the stock Allen "power egg"
4. will need a complete new front frame extension keeping the cylinder's in stock location but a lower and shorter front end , will keep the stock front truck. may be able to cut back original
5. new pilot beam and fire tube pilot as well as coupler pocket, as well as the usual SP pilot details.
6. new longer smoke box that goes almost all the way to pilot beam!! long snout! as well as steel ring and door
7. reshape boiler top profile to match the SP wagon top , mix of Allen and Schroeder's shay! easy fix and should help with steaming actually!
8. completely new sheet metal cab , laser cut for ease and finesse!
9. new domes and stacks to match , or alter if possible. choice of original locations, will be moved to fire train locations
10. new design whale back tender and truck frames to match prototype as well as buffer to help keep plumbing together!
11. Coles Duplex pump and all the plumbing and valving, this all needs to operate ! for the boys entertainment and the fun, nozzle's need to spray water!! as well as plumbing for tank cars going both ways, 3 tank cars!
12. all the little SP specific jewelry to make it look right

this is a good start on changes to be made. most will be pretty easy and give huge changes in look and personality. its a lot of work but I do have a fair number of useable components already in stock in my storage drawers. I had been building one of the ten wheelers but ended up trading it of, that's a whole another story. ended up trading the front truck for a Hardinge HLVH that I need to get back up and running!
so a couple major items I need to keep an eye out to purchase for this project, 2 Super Scale Nathan injectors, these can wait a while!! Coles Worthington water pump kit. 3 Pyle national headlights , I need one of the small LS manufacturing dummy K2? generators , way smaller than the M06 , LS made the k2 in dummy castings. and a 1.5 crosscompound, will probably used one of Dave Moores dummy's .

should be an interesting speed build!!
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gcarsen
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:39 pm
Location: Tigard, Oregon

Re: Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

Post by gcarsen »

here is the SP Diagram drawings from there diagram book , good quick starting dimensions. drivers are 63 inch , Allen's are 8.00 , good start within an 1/8 of an inch , the spacing between the front and rear drivers are staggered . front 5'11" rear 6'3" that's 4 inches on full size model scales out to .5 inches . could leave alone, move middle driver forward .25 or move rear driver back .5 inch? probably leave them alone so one can use stock Allen frame! plus if I hadn't told anyone who would of caught that!
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gcarsen
Posts: 575
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Location: Tigard, Oregon

Re: Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

Post by gcarsen »

here is the stock square counter weight driver I will be using. I need to alter the heavy weight though. on the Allen locomotives the counter weights are the same shape, only difference is the heavies are .125 thicker . we will need to add more to the length of the counterweight, that will be easy!
the front frame extension that holds the cylinders, there needs to be some changes there to get the right look. just quick sketching ,, looks like about 5/8 comes of the front, need to remove the front fillets to the cylinder support upright, and fill in the triangular hole and square that section off. and see if we can shorten section that bolts to the frame by an inch, bringing the cylinders back 1 inch. need to get this all drawn up but this should bring the visual proportions in pretty good.
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NP317
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Re: Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

Post by NP317 »

Grant!
Delighted to see you aiming back into the Live Steam World!! I have missed seeing you the past year+.

Your choice of the S.P. T-1 fire-service Ten Wheelers is good. You will get a delightfully "chunky" Ten Wheeler. Quite unique.
'Hope we can all get back together for more Cascade Model Engineers adventures.

Please keep us informed here on your progress. With your shop and all the Allen TW parts you have made, your project could move along nicely.
RussN
gcarsen
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:39 pm
Location: Tigard, Oregon

Re: Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

Post by gcarsen »

tonights project was to get the cylinder cock drain holes drilled in the cylinders. I hate this step as you can not just drill from the port side into the bore, your hole will end up to far back in the bore, needs to be outside the piston and ring swept area of the bore. done them before , set up in mill, carsefull pick up, start a full flat with an 1/8 end mill, spot with 1/8 , then finally drill through with the 1/8 drill, then start over on the other end. time to make life simpler . grabed a shaft end and turned up a quick plug thats nice close fit with a register step, drilled some bolt hole driles to match both hands of the cyliders. set up the angle, did all the math, and put in the 1/8 hole through the shaft. this makes us a nice drill fixture for drilling those ports, cuts the time down to a few mere minutes for the set! and nothing critical to worry about!! test drilled the first one with a 1/8 drill in a hand drill. long term thats not a great idea. grabbed the drill press , tilted the table to the angle held the cylinder and drill fixture up in line with drill and clamped a quick guide to the table. knocked it around a bit till everything lines up well! holes coming out spot on, down in bottom of the port, and out at end of cylinder with no sweat! figured a few of you might like this trick!
Next into the sunnen hone to finish the bores!! then a thorough cleaning and these cylinders are finished!!
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NP5002
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Re: Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

Post by NP5002 »

Looks great Grant. Always good to see your work. It's going to great to see ya run this engine and to run with you.
Dave Workman
gcarsen
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:39 pm
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Re: Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

Post by gcarsen »

Hello Dave, thank you for the compliments! looking forward to running with you!! just got to keep lucas of the fire hoses!
this is going to be quite an ambitious project to try and get it all done by next spring!
gcarsen
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:39 pm
Location: Tigard, Oregon

Re: Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

Post by gcarsen »

got the drivers started into the wire edm , i use it to cut the bores and keyway for setting the quartering. not the fastest way but its dead on right, pluss its running by itself while i can handle other task.
for the crank pins, making mine just a tad different, making them out od D-2 Tool steel hardened to 60rc. overkill but they should never wear out either!! i was concerned about turning the threads on the ends with hardening them. i could see in a minor accident one could break the threaded portion straight of the end of the shaft , or bugger the threads. so i drilled and taped the center to 3/8 fine and counterbored the backside to take a socket head cap screw bolt. this way if something gets messed up i can easily fix it!
so after the drivers are done, I' double check the finish bores and load these pins up on the surface grinder and grind them to finish size with the needed pressfits. then assemble the bolts through the backside with some good threadlocker locktight and finish machine the threads to length and chamfered correctly. when time ill show how i grind them. easy way!
Grant
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gcarsen
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Location: Tigard, Oregon

Re: Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

Post by gcarsen »

another few little pieces off the bench, reverse shaft and the pillow block! made the pillow blocks out of some bearing bronze i had sitting around. added te little oiling holes. when done will pack them with some oiling cloth. something that will wick the oil down into the bearing and keep the junk out! the shaft is out of some drill rod i had laying around. final assembly will replace the socket head cap screw with a hex bolt or maybe a stud and nut for extra detail!
Grant
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NP317
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Re: Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

Post by NP317 »

Nice work, as always.
RussN
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Harold_V
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Re: Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

Post by Harold_V »

gcarsen wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:19 am load these pins up on the surface grinder and grind them to finish size with the needed pressfits.
Surface grinder?
That implies that you have a center type (or even a centerless) accessory. Care to elaborate?

What you described would normally be accomplished on a cylindrical grinder (or even a centerless), not a surface grinder.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
gcarsen
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:39 pm
Location: Tigard, Oregon

Re: Turning an Allen Ten wheeler into a Southern Pacific T1 class locomotive 2252

Post by gcarsen »

Hello Harold,
yep, ill do the grinding on the pins on my surface grinder, I have a nice myfors heavy duty one we picked up cheap but have not had time to get it all in order yet.
but for cylindrical grinding on my surface grinder i have 3 options,
1. quick and dirty , the hand spin jig, universal use on mill to. spindle is ok , no bearings, and no thrust bearings, either hard to turn or losen it up and the spindle slides in an out a bit! real fine line! ok for single diameters, but grinding up to a shoulder can be troublesome, need to always pull back on spin handle while turning it!
2. spin index, i have the power head for it, can use a 5c collet , face plate or adjustable v block . pretty universal and has actual bearings and thrust bearings, nice tight acurate unit. can install stops and do some form grinding on it too . pretty handy and very universal, grinder use only or me. good for short parts.
3. i have a Harig center bed that is powered to. it has dual centers so you can use male or female centers and grind between the centers. it uses a driver face plate that is powered with a glorified o ring! and a little lathe dog to catch . this set up is slick and handy for ginding round shafts! surprisingly it will handle about 6 inch diameter and 6 inch length. but both end need centers. have the material, wanting to build a new bed that is about 4 inches longer, then its a piece of cake doing axles.
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