USATC S-160 Consolidation

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Adirondack
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Re: USATC S-160 Consolidation

Post by Adirondack »

FKreider wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:45 am I have an FDM printer (CR-10) and have done a bunch of prototyping for castings along with a handful of actual sand patterns, it has been worth every penny!

I am seriously considering picking up an Elegoo Mars since its so affordable and highly recommended. My purpose would be the same as yours- for one off investment castings using castable resin.
I was going to chime in and say the same. FDM is great for foundry work, and resin is best for investment casting.

I’ve been using 3D printing for over a decade and it still seems like science fiction.

Chris
Adirondack Car & Foundry
Check out our projects: https://www.facebook.com/ADKrail/
Visit our ALL-NEW online store: https://adirondackcarfoundry.square.site/

A little locomotive with 4 wheels on the track is a lot more fun
than a 1/2 finished one with 16 wheels on the bench!
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Dick_Morris
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Re: USATC S-160 Consolidation

Post by Dick_Morris »

The print quality isn't as good as there are some layer lines and a bit less detail, but PLA printed on the FCM printer also works for investment casting. It's a lot cheaper than using castable resin.
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Dick_Morris
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Re: USATC S-160 Consolidation

Post by Dick_Morris »

Another part (almost) done. The connecting rod was scaled from the prototype print and cast in Petrobond sand.

This part was a challenge. My FPM printer is fairly small and the 16" long pattern had to be split into four parts for printing which were then glued together for use. (Actually eight parts, it had two sides and was mounted on a match plate.) I also had to make a casting flask that would hold that length. Although Freecad has the capability to print pattern draft, I wasn't able to make it work for this pattern. (I was able to apply draft today on another of the rods.) All the draft was done with sandpaper blocks.

This material is home brew aluminum bronze, 90% old copper pipe and 10% aluminum. It machines pretty well with carbide tools, but plays hell on bi-metal band saw blades.

Although the 1100 C maximum temperature of my electric foundry furnace is hot enough for investment casting bronze, where the mold is heated and the metal is drawn in with vacuum, the temperature was too low for sand casting. I had four failures before breaking out my propane foundry furnace.

I gave added 2% to the pattern for shrinkage and the cast part was was within less than .010" of the target length. I was surprised that it was so close. The difference in length of the pattern and casting can be seen in one of the photos.

Bushings are Delrin.

I will probably do a bit more work and do additional polishing and nickel plate it so it looks more like polished steel.
Attachments
20201001_224848.jpg
main rod and match plate.png
Rod pattern.png
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Dick_Morris
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Re: USATC S-160 Consolidation

Post by Dick_Morris »

I also added some new casting related tools to the collection. :D

I got a 110v, 3 KG electric furnace to replace my 1 KG Kerr Electro-melt (that's 3 KG of gold, about 1.8 KG of bronze) a couple of months ago. It was defective and after contacting the seller and doing some checks that he requested, he sent me a 220v replacement that better met my needs and was actually valued at about $30 more than the 110v model. I was able to repair the defective unit by correcting a badly routed wire, so I now have two of them. It was purchased via Amazon, but the seller is in China. I have to credit the seller. Although there were some quality control problems with the product, the customer service was some of the best I've ever seen. Their rep bent over backwards to make sure I was satisfied.

I also found a small kiln for burn outs on Craig's list for $75 that was too short for my use, but with the addition of another layer of insulating fire brick it meets most of my needs.

Just today I got a new Mars Pro 2 printer. It has a slightly different design which allows it to print about three times as fast. With my old printer several of my prints took 12-14 hours.
FKreider
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Re: USATC S-160 Consolidation

Post by FKreider »

Excellent work! I am also always pleasantly surprised when the final casting comes out so close to the predicted size when calculating the appropriate shrinkage, the math works like a charm!
-Frank K.
Berkman
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Re: USATC S-160 Consolidation

Post by Berkman »

Ever thought about partnering with a supplier etc to make your S-160 castings/drawings available to other builders?
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Dick_Morris
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Re: USATC S-160 Consolidation

Post by Dick_Morris »

Not really, although I've shared some information with other builders. I have access to a substantially complete set of about 800 prototype drawings, but I don't own it. Rather, the non-profit that owns it compiled it at a cost of thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of volunteer time to acquire and catalog the set and only shares if for a substantial fee. In addition, I am enjoying my retirement way to much to dedicate any of the finite amount of time I have left on this earth to that type of an enterprise.
Pontiacguy1
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Re: USATC S-160 Consolidation

Post by Pontiacguy1 »

Don't blame you... If I have to make a casting for something unique that I need, I might would offer a few of those for sale to others just to try to amortize the cost of R&D for my own parts. And to be nice. But trying to become a supplier to the hobby is a treacherous road, and I wouldn't be doing that unless you really want to. I admire the people who are casting suppliers to this hobby, and the time and dedication they put in. Sometimes I think: "man, that's really high for that casting!" Then I think what it would cost and how much time it would take for me to go produce it and have it poured myself. Suddenly, that price doesn't look quite as bad!!

Your rods look really nice.
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ChipsAhoy
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Re: USATC S-160 Consolidation

Post by ChipsAhoy »

Dick:
You mentioned someplace a couple of post up from here about 10% aluminum and 90% copper for alumi-bronze.
I'm going to do a bronze pour Friday I hope, and I thought..... 'While the pot is hot'!
When we pour bronze we are having to put a glass barrier on top to keep the zink from catching on fire.
My question, Is there a need to cap the alumi-bronze concoction? Have you been able to melt and pour without using anything, if not, what are you using?
BTW, hope you are getting out to the track these days, I assume you heard about Dean passing.
Thx
Scotty
LouStule
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Re: USATC S-160 Consolidation

Post by LouStule »

Pontiacguy1 wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:55 am Don't blame you... If I have to make a casting for something unique that I need, I might would offer a few of those for sale to others just to try to amortize the cost of R&D for my own parts. And to be nice. But trying to become a supplier to the hobby is a treacherous road, and I wouldn't be doing that unless you really want to. I admire the people who are casting suppliers to this hobby, and the time and dedication they put in. Sometimes I think: "man, that's really high for that casting!" Then I think what it would cost and how much time it would take for me to go produce it and have it poured myself. Suddenly, that price doesn't look quite as bad!!

Your rods look really nice.
Exactly! From my experience, when you turn a hobby into a business, you ruin both. But, that's just me.
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Dick_Morris
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Re: USATC S-160 Consolidation

Post by Dick_Morris »

Scotty -

I didn't do anything special with the aluminum bronze. Melt the copper and then add the aluminum. No flux or cover. There wasn't a lot of dross other than when I used thin aluminum from fin tubes. It was a poor man's alloy. It machines pretty well with carbide but shows no mercy to HSS band saw blades. I tried to make a "real" aluminum bronze using copper, aluminum, iron, and nickel (nickels are 25% nickel and 75% copper), but is takes a fairly high temperature to melt the nickels. I may try again some day but I wasn't able to get the temperature high enough to melt them.

I had problems getting enough heat with my electric furnace to sand cast the aluminum bronze and had to use the propane furnace. That's probably the last time I can use that furnace until May. I burned out the element on one of the two 3kg (gold) foundries so I bought a roll of Kanthal wire - Fed-Ex delivered it today. I should be able to safely get about 450 degrees f more with the Kanthal and have better success with sand casting bronze while inside.

I haven't been to the track this year. I've been following the philosophy that there is no way to tell who might try and kill me off with Covid 19 and and have been staying very close to home. That's OK because building is what I enjoy most in the hobby. I heard about about Dean. I also recently heard that Ken passed a year or two ago.
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Harold_V
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Re: USATC S-160 Consolidation

Post by Harold_V »

Dick,
One of the things you can try if you hope to use iron and nickel is dissolution. Molten copper will dissolve them, although it may not be fast. You need not achieve their melting points. Heat and stir, and give it time, and introduce thin bits so there's more area exposed. That concept is used regularly in fire assaying, where molten lead is used to collect values, plus, if you use an electric soldering gun, you'll notice how the tip of the gun goes away. It's dissolved by the molten solder.

One comment about your mention of your two 3kg (gold) foundries (with no offense intended). I suspect what you mean is furnace. A foundry is a place where castings are poured, not the device used to melt metals. Just sayin'! :wink:

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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