12" working railroad

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V

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Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
rkcarguy
Posts: 1260
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:54 pm

Glenn, when you get a sketch done go ahead and send it my way. I'm officially our "estimator" so I'll get the parts we can get made in our shop quoted and then have the pipe shop quote welding it up to ASME standards. I know that we do, I just need to check into our pipe welder certs I didn't hear back from Steve(our weld inspector/certification man). I haven't been in the office since Tuesday though, I took advantage of the nice weather and have been getting my groundwork finished up for my house footings.
If you have room, I highly recommend making a thinner firebox and lining it with 1/2 thickness firebrick. I lined a steel outdoor fireplace I made with it and even with it burning super hot so the chimney was glowing red the outsides were just warm to the touch.

Glenn Brooks
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Re: 12" working railroad

Post by Glenn Brooks » Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:08 pm

Thanks Ryan, will do. Should be Monday or Tuesday.

Also I want to look again into making a set of trucks for my yard goat. We talked about this last winter but I gave it up because of other projects. As I am converting my Campbell 4-4-0 to 15” ga, it makes sense to put the yard goat/switcher back on the list of things to do. Particularily as Iam pushing forward with a park guage live steam club track. I would use the goat to build the ROW and lay track. Next spring maybe.

I like the Bloomberg M outside swing bolster configuration. Looks simple to make up with a little welding/fab work thrown in.
C7D94F3C-DD09-4039-9A2D-9C3C94EF5585.jpeg

Or the old reliable ARR typeB, we discussed last year.
95FEF479-8E38-4D3B-8893-7174DC87E81B.jpeg
Iam not sure the firebrick would be beneficial, as the firebox is the primary component for rapid steam generation. You need maximum heat transfer in this area.

Did you get your footings laid in? Man it got cold this afternoon - 65* to 48* in less than an hour. Snow up in the pass over the weekend.


Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:31 am

I was thinking sides and back for the fire brick. It should actually help as it will direct the heat towards the tubes instead of losing it through the sides of the box. It was noticeably helpful on the outdoor fireplace, which actually had an exchanger in it to heat water for a hot tub. Adding the fire brick dropped my warm up time by about 25%.
Bloomberg M's would be easy enough to do, I already have the type B's drawn up in 1.5", 2", and 2.5".
I am in that manual labor mode where I've roughed the site and excavated what I can with a mini-excavator, and now I've got strings, posts and the transit and I'm making it all +0, -1/2" with hand tools so the forms will sit in there nice and level.
I'm planning on a hotter concrete mix and then plan on tarping the foundation off and setting up some heat in case it starts to get cold enough to where it could affect the concrete.

rkcarguy
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:42 pm

For large wheels, we could laser cut the centers and then use 8" or 10" Sch. 80 pipe for the "tires" if you needed a tire width > 1".

rkcarguy
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:58 pm

I've been searching for an easy way to finish turn my wheelsets in a "production setup" not really having any collet chuck setup, dials, or stops to work with on the carriage on this big lathe. I think I finally came up with an answer. I'm having a flange laser cut that matches that of the 4 bolt pillow blocks I'm using, and will weld a spindle onto it so I can chuck it up in the tailstock. Then I can simply bore a sleeve chucked up so the other end runs true, slip each wheelset into the sleeve and using the pillow block and chuck/tailstock to support the other end, and then turn my final tapers using a bolt in the drive dog hole so they don't spin in the sleeve. The face of the wheel will act as a stop against the chuck, so I can reference from it so I get the gage correct after flipping each wheelset around.

rkcarguy
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Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:48 am

I did a little work tonight getting the hydraulic motors fit into their brackets, took some measurements so I can weld them onto the truck cross tubes and have them centered inside the body.
I actually made these brackets long before I ordered the hydraulic motors, so I'm happy everything fit well.
Hydromounts.jpg

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BigDumbDinosaur
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Re: 12" working railroad

Post by BigDumbDinosaur » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:38 pm

rkcarguy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:48 am
I did a little work tonight getting the hydraulic motors fit into their brackets, took some measurements so I can weld them onto the truck cross tubes and have them centered inside the body.
I actually made these brackets long before I ordered the hydraulic motors, so I'm happy everything fit well.
Hydromounts.jpg
Good luck trying to keep those mounting bolts tight. :twisted:
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I'm an old guy. What's your excuse? ☻

rkcarguy
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:02 pm

BDD, I'm going to be attaching a tensioner jacking bolt under the hydraulic motors with a locking nut so they can't "walk" in the slots.

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BigDumbDinosaur
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Re: 12" working railroad

Post by BigDumbDinosaur » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:08 pm

rkcarguy wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:02 pm
BDD, I'm going to be attaching a tensioner jacking bolt under the hydraulic motors with a locking nut so they can't "walk" in the slots.
I suggest you use flange-head capscrews, grade 8, minimum thread engagement of 1/2 inch. The traction motor brackets on my trucks are made from 1/4 inch HR steel. Here is what I use, which gives me 1/2 inch thread engagement. The capscrew heads bear directly on the bracket surface. If you are going to use washers, they should be hardened ones so they don't "cave in" into the slots. However, with flange-head screws the washers aren't necessary.

I can't tell from your photo what your material thickness is, but can tell you that due to the overhung load applied to the motor, there will be a tendency for the bracket to twist under load. That tendency gets more pronounced the further the motor centerline is from the point at which the bracket is attached to the truck assembly. As the twisting is cyclic in nature, fatigue can set in and result in a bracket fracture.
—————————————————————————————————
I'm an old guy. What's your excuse? ☻

rkcarguy
Posts: 1260
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:00 pm

I used 1/2" A572-Gr-50 steel plate for the motor brackets, they are very stout. That said I am still going to gusset their connection to the cross tubes after I have everything plumbed up to make sure the gussets aren't in the way. I am leaning towards simply welding on some heavy coupler nuts so I get a lot of threads, and then grind the head of the bolt smooth and let it rest on the hydraulic motors casting (its square on the bolted end), with another nut under the head to lock it in place.
The bolts are grade 8, I used grade 5 washers though because I have 2 bags of 100 that I special ordered that are abnormally thick at .080" and fit really nice on 3/8" bolts (they are actually 5/16" washers). I hate all the slop that washers typically have on their respective bolt size. So far they have held up really well in other spots as tight as I dare go with a 3/8 bolt. I used 1-1/4" long bolts so minus the washer thickness I got a few extra threads of engagement in the hydraulic motors.

Glenn Brooks
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Re: 12" working railroad

Post by Glenn Brooks » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:41 pm

Ryan, congrats of topping 100k views!

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 1260
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:00 pm

Thanks Glenn, I'm amazed I've topped so many views.
I finally found some 19 tooth sprockets in 520 chain size, they should be here today so I can finally weld those to the hubs for the hydraulic motors and then start assembling the powertrain into the S12's trucks.
I bought two of these Brevini hydraulic motors from surplus center, and they seem like they have better quality castings and appear to be good quality. Same bolt pattern, shaft size and length, and outside dimensions as the Dynamic BMPH100's. Their one difference is they are 6.15 cu/in instead of 5.9, and will actually give me a little more reduction which is welcome. With the 5.9 motors, the larger of the two pump options was going to be close to motor over-rev, while the next size down pump would have left me with a top speed of 4.9mph at max speed on the pump and I'd be at the max rev's for the pump to get it. The 1.15cu/in pump and 6.15cu/in motors land me in the sweet spot.

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