12" Guage Wheel Standard

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

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rkcarguy
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by rkcarguy » Fri May 17, 2019 5:44 pm

I've sized my wheel burnouts for a 5/16 wide (minus the 10* flange angle cut), by 1/4" deep flange when new, and left myself 1/8" of extra meat on the wheels which will allow several re-turns if needed. The flanges could either be left alone and would "grow" in depth as the "tire" was turned down, or turned down along with the tire. So if I was running on someone else's RR, my wheel may drop a little bit into their frogs and theirs would ride up through my frogs. I'm actually making the "root" of my frogs screw in though, so this isn't that big of a deal either.

This brings up another question of mine. I've assumed that when a wheel navigates a frog, that the bottom of the frog is supposed to be close to(obviously a bit deeper to account for wear) the flange depth to support the wheel for that short moment where it hops over the gap in the rails?

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davidqueener
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by davidqueener » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:26 pm

Gentlemen,

Hello, my name is Dave Queener and I have been lurking about the Grand Scales discussion forum for some time, but have remained quiet until now, when it seems I will actually have the opportunity to build a Grand Scale outdoor railroad on 9 acres that I have inherited from my parents. I have corresponded privately with both Glenn Brooks and Mike Walsh, and I was a member of the WF&P in St. Louis during the early 90s while at seminary. So I have been around some grand scale equipment, though most of my modeling has been done on the garden railway side of the hobby.

I am contemplating building a dual gauge layout of 7.5" and 12" gauges, modeling in 2.5" scale, that way I could have both 3' narrow gauge and standard gauge models operating together in an appropriate scale. Since live steam railroading is something of a social affair, and my family and I enjoy entertaining, I do not want to exclude fellow railroaders from the smaller 1.5" scale / 7.5" gauge phase of the hobby, who may chose to visit. The question is, can 7.5" / 1.5" scale equipment run on dual gauge track, if the flangeways are built to these proposed IBLS / WF&P standards, and use 12 lbs. rail with its distinct head profile?

I really would not want to build my railroad out of 1" tall aluminum rail in order to accommodate my friends in 7.5" gauge, since it would look undersized and I suspect the wear on the rail head from larger, proportionally heavier 12" gauge equipment would be significant over time. So the issue is two fold: (1) flangeway width for 12" gauge and (2) the rail profile being used, namely the measurement of that radius on the head of the rail.

Any ideas, gentlemen?

Thanks,

Dave Queener
Knoxville, Tennessee
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 333-5712

STRR
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by STRR » Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:34 pm

Hello Dave,

I would like to make a suggestion. While not as readily available as 12 lb. rail, there are both 8 lb. and 10 lb. rail around. 8 lb. rail being more common and last I checked still available new, might serve better on a dual gauge/dual scale railroad. Both would be plenty strong enough for 12" and 7.5" gauges/trains. At one time Roll Models, Ind. sold new 8 lb. rail and connectors. I haven't been to their website in a long time so I don't know if they still offer 8 lb. rail or not. They are a good company to deal with.

Just a thought that might answer your concerns about rail profile/flange profile potential problems. I have a tie spacing chart for rail sizes, tie spacing, and point loading should you need some information.

Good Luck,
Terry

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davidqueener
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by davidqueener » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:22 am

Thanks, Terry, I will try to find Roll Models, or whomever has their product line. Glenn and I had talked about using 8lbs. rail, but the difficulty is finding it. The used stuff is from the 1920s--mine rail--and there is new stuff being produced, but in China!

Best Regards,

Dave Q
Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com (865) 209-5654

Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com (865) 333-5712

rkcarguy
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by rkcarguy » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:46 am

I'm using 3/8x1 steel flat bar and the "groovy track" method for the rail for my 12" gage RR (2" scale), as it's actually close to siding and spur sized rail in scale and is low in cost. With ties spaced 3-1/2" apart it easily supports 300#'s per wheel with no deflection. You can find it with a decent radius on it but it can vary by the mill and even the heat #, so I'd advise getting a big bundle of all at once from the same manufacturer.
I think you'll be able to get the 8# rail but you may need to order a bunch of it (like 3000' +) and wait awhile for the mill to run it. The biggest problem I see is that the flange rail spacing and gaps in the frogs are going to be larger for the 12" equipment flange width and the 7.5" is going to be pretty sloppy in the same and may cause derailments.

UPsteamfan
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by UPsteamfan » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:45 am

rkcarguy wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:46 am
I'm using 3/8x1 steel flat bar and the "groovy track" method for the rail for my 12" gage RR (2" scale), as it's actually close to siding and spur sized rail in scale and is low in cost. With ties spaced 3-1/2" apart it easily supports 300#'s per wheel with no deflection. You can find it with a decent radius on it but it can vary by the mill and even the heat #, so I'd advise getting a big bundle of all at once from the same manufacturer.
I think you'll be able to get the 8# rail but you may need to order a bunch of it (like 3000' +) and wait awhile for the mill to run it. The biggest problem I see is that the flange rail spacing and gaps in the frogs are going to be larger for the 12" equipment flange width and the 7.5" is going to be pretty sloppy in the same and may cause derailments.
Could you share a photo of your track please?
Scott Reinert
Head Something Important
Beefalo Creek Railroad

rkcarguy
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by rkcarguy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:49 pm

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=105660&start=624

That's my riding car frame sitting on my turnout at the bottom of this page.

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