Tie spacing chart

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V

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Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2282
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Tie spacing chart

Post by Glenn Brooks » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:41 am

Here is a tie spacing chart developed by Terry Miller, whom we know on Chaski as STRR. Terry recently posted the chart to the 18” Gauge groups.io forum. Terry reports that the source data for the chart is 19th century rail data that contained several inaccuracies. Terry and his friend, Doug VanVeelen, a civil engineer, extensively reviewed and corrected the original inaccurate data and prepared this new chart as a verified reference document relating to rail characteristics, that present day Park Gauge railroad enthusiasts can rely on when planing track layout work. As this kind of rail information has been lost to public view for quite some time, Terry’s work looks to be a valuable and useful reference guide for all of us interested in grand scale railroading.
81D64DD9-CCBE-4141-8DC5-9105258A8C7E.png
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

STRR
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 9:01 pm
Location: Westminster, CO

Re: Tie spacing chart

Post by STRR » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:52 pm

Glenn,

You are correct, this chart is based on the original. The exceptions are as follows: Erroneous data has been located and corrected, data has been researched and added, information has been added and explained. Using this chart and formulae, anyone can find tie spacing and rail size to suit the needs.

Glad you posted it throughout the internet without letting anyone know who's responsible. I sure don't want them blaming me for all that work.

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2282
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Tie spacing chart

Post by Glenn Brooks » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:43 am

Hi Terry,

Please accept my sincerest apology for not properly acknowledging your authorship and ownership of this valuable reference. I will edit my original post to correct my error, right away.

Please know that It was not my intention to slight your contribution, in any way. I do very much appreciate the effort you put into developing this chart, and the enclosed data. I saw a similar chart some years ago, and have been looking for an on line version ever since. Your work is a valuable and I believe, much needed, indeed noteworthy, contribution to the park gauge railroading community. So I am very happy to add your authorship, and Mr. Van Venleen’s Engineering contribution, to the post.

I simply did not understand who authored the work in the group.io post, or that it is a current compilation of data. In fact, I thought the chart was the same as I had seen many, many years ago, concerning tie spacing, bit which has since disappeared from public view. Hence I thought it important to repost onto Chaski, to preserve it, and to provide a reference to forum members, as we periodically have discussion threads that discuss this very subject.

In fact, if you have a .PDF or spreadsheet that you care to share publicly, I think our forum software may have a way to post these formats as a reference document in our archive sections. This would be entirely your choice. In any event, I would encourage you to add your name as author, and any contact information you might wish to include. As I understand it, this automatically copyrights the material on your behalf.

Again, my sincerest apology for not properly crediting your authorship and work. Please know I will make ever effort in the future to verify and acknowledge the proper ownership and authorship of documents or postings that I might have occasion to review here on Chaski.

Best regards,
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

STRR
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 9:01 pm
Location: Westminster, CO

Re: Tie spacing chart

Post by STRR » Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:46 pm

Glenn,

Thank You Very Much. I appreciate all you have done. I will check my computer and see if the chart is in a .pdf file or if it's in something else.

One NOTE I wanted to add and never have YET: The S section modulus for the formulae is the second column Modulus of Elasticity. So ALL of the information a person will need to properly calculate load, tie size, or tie spacing is IN/ON the chart.

Good Luck To You All,
Terry

STRR
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 9:01 pm
Location: Westminster, CO

Re: Tie spacing chart

Post by STRR » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:07 pm

Glenn Brooks suggested we place a copy of the Tie Spacing Chart into the Reference Library. I reworked the Chart and added an Information/Explanation Letter. I am posting it here to see how it posts and to get feedback on the new Chart and Letter. I welcome your input.
Thank You.
Terry
Rail Spacing Letter.jpg
Rail Spacing Chart.jpg
Well, the attachments are way too SMALL. I will work on how to get them larger. The letter original is a Word document and the Chart is an Excel format. We're having problems converting them to .jpeg documents for the Reference Library.

Sorry for the Liliputian posting.

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2282
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Tie spacing chart

Post by Glenn Brooks » Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:28 pm

Terry, thanks for posting. Looking good! Regarding file size, I just checked, and apparently the forum software will load .PDF files. So, You could possibly increase the font size in the word document, and the spreadsheet, then save it as a larger size .Pdf to increase the physical document size and font on-line. Might make the docs a bit easier to read when viewed on a computer screen.

Regarding terminology, it might be useful to briefly explain, in laymens language, the technical terms: “Section modulus” and “Fiber Stress”. Also, It’s always been a mystery to me why the point loading formula is invalid when tie spacing is less than wheel centers. A sentence or two about these things might be beneficial.

Thanks much,
Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

STRR
Posts: 388
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 9:01 pm
Location: Westminster, CO

Re: Tie spacing chart

Post by STRR » Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:17 pm

I have been asked to explain some terms/items and post in the Reference Library for posterity. I hope changes made will make these easier to read. I added rail sizes not available today since many of us use what we can find. I own some 10lb rail.

Thank You,
Terry
Tie Spacing Chart 2021pdf.pdf
(20.57 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

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