Woodinville Shops

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V

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rkcarguy
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: Woodinville Shops

Post by rkcarguy » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:52 am

Nice work Glenn. I wish I had my lathe together, I can't use the shop right now under the Covid-19 distancing protocol. I'd just got all the parts completed and purchased and was ready to start machining the spindle and squaring up the way plate....
How do you deal with the repeatability of the 3-jaw chuck when you remove and reinstall the wheel arbors? Or does your chuck run concentric enough it's not an issue?

Glenn Brooks
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Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Woodinville Shops

Post by Glenn Brooks » Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:07 pm

I generally leave the work in the chuck until finished with all the turning operations. So far, have only need to turn down the backside , then flip over and do all the front and thread surfaces. So run out not a big deal- for RR wheels.

I am thinking about milling three equal flats on the stub, each at 120*, then marking the first flat as #1 to correspond to the #1 jaw on the chuck. This way, should get better repeatability - if I can control DOC to less than a thou. At least as far as mounting the fixture in the same location each time. Not sure repeatability really matters much for the wheels... Might be a good experiment. Certainly have enuf time on my hands!
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: Woodinville Shops

Post by rkcarguy » Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:50 pm

I did that for my arbor on the lathe at work I forgot about that, I didn't mill any flats though. The chuck has #'s on the jaws and I stamped the #1 jaw marks on the arbor #1 so I know how to align it with the chuck. I remounted it twice and it was true within .001".
The homebuilt lathe is going to incorporate a faceplate with a flanged sleeve in the center to accept 5C collets. I'll turn a lip on it and mount a 3-jaw chuck later. I've left my wheelsets about .020-.030 big/wide and I'll be cutting the final tapers and finish cuts in the collet so everything runs true.
The 5C profile is very easy to make, a bore, a 10* taper, and a piece of key stock or pin to catch the groove so it can't spin. A chunk of tube and the right threaded nut(or cut the threads yourself) and you can easily make your own Po-Boy collet holder setup.

Glenn Brooks
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Woodinville Shops

Post by Glenn Brooks » Fri Apr 17, 2020 8:09 pm

Very cool. I bought a nice set of 5C collects last year at an estate sale so have them sitting there in the shop but haven’t used them yet.

Seems like the Key with wheels is to mount the wheels square on the axle so it doesn’t wobble. that’s the biggest problem I’ve been having with these small 4” wheel castings is facing the back and the front and tread Square with the axle bore that I cut first.
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: Woodinville Shops

Post by rkcarguy » Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:32 am

I've found you've got to use larger axle stock and turn the ends down so the wheels press up against a shoulder. I bored and reamed and faced my first set of 8 wheels .998" and then pressed them onto 1" stress proof axles and none of them ran true (wobble side to side). Thankfully I wasn't so sure they wouldn't, so left myself a little meat for a cleanup cut. Alternately, you might be able to get away with using a set screw collar, make sure it runs true on the axle, heat the wheel and drop it on there. That will be my next thing to try.

Glenn Brooks
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Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Woodinville Shops

Post by Glenn Brooks » Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:26 am

I plan on turning shoulders for the wheels. Also seems like misalignment is a given if one bores the axle hole before facing off at least one side. Plus round stock is never concentric, so lots of ways the wheels won’t run true... Leaving enuf for a finish cut seems like a very good idea, in any case...
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2236
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Woodinville Shops

Post by Glenn Brooks » Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:40 am

Finished turning the wheels and making the axle pins for the gantry crane trolly. I must be using 12l50 round stock for the axles as it turns like butter. Very nice, almost silky finish. Beautiful chips.

The specs on the axles are .750” diameter with 10 tpi threads. Wheels are standard 1.5” scale rolling stock wheel castings that I picked up at an estate sale last year. Don’t know who made them, but fine cast iron work. Interestingly, the angle of the I beam web, on the trolley is around 8*. So turned the tread on the wheels with the compound set at 92*. Pretty steep angle, but the wheels sit pretty well vertical on the web.

Real happy I was able to hold a thou clearance on the axles and wheel bore. Perfect slip fit. And the wheels spin on the pins as if they are running on ball bearings.

I’ll probably cheat and order 3/4” nuts from the local hardware store to bolt up the wheel assemblies to the side plates -rather than turn and single point a bunch more nuts. It’s a nuisance turning internal threads .130” deep with 3/8” HSS tool bit stock. Hard to grind the point deep enuf to cut the complete thread and still have a rigid enuf tool to survive. Easier to just order a handful of nuts.

Glenn
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Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

Harold_V
Posts: 18420
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Woodinville Shops

Post by Harold_V » Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:27 pm

rkcarguy wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:52 am
How do you deal with the repeatability of the 3-jaw chuck when you remove and reinstall the wheel arbors?
You should investigate the use of soft jaws.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

rkcarguy
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: Woodinville Shops

Post by rkcarguy » Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:43 pm

Harold_V wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:27 pm
rkcarguy wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:52 am
How do you deal with the repeatability of the 3-jaw chuck when you remove and reinstall the wheel arbors?
You should investigate the use of soft jaws.

H
I agree. It's not really an option when using the lathe at work though.

rkcarguy
Posts: 1505
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am
Location: Wa State

Re: Woodinville Shops

Post by rkcarguy » Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:45 pm

Glenn Brooks wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:40 am
Finished turning the wheels and making the axle pins for the gantry crane trolly. I must be using 12l50 round stock for the axles as it turns like butter. Very nice, almost silky finish. Beautiful chips.

The specs on the axles are .750” diameter with 10 tpi threads. Wheels are standard 1.5” scale rolling stock wheel castings that I picked up at an estate sale last year. Don’t know who made them, but fine cast iron work. Interestingly, the angle of the I beam web, on the trolley is around 8*. So turned the tread on the wheels with the compound set at 92*. Pretty steep angle, but the wheels sit pretty well vertical on the web.

Real happy I was able to hold a thou clearance on the axles and wheel bore. Perfect slip fit. And the wheels spin on the pins as if they are running on ball bearings.

I’ll probably cheat and order 3/4” nuts from the local hardware store to bolt up the wheel assemblies to the side plates -rather than turn and single point a bunch more nuts. It’s a nuisance turning internal threads .130” deep with 3/8” HSS tool bit stock. Hard to grind the point deep enuf to cut the complete thread and still have a rigid enuf tool to survive. Easier to just order a handful of nuts.

Glenn
I was thinking that was an awful steep taper haha, before I started reading about them being for the gantry crane trolley.
They look good. You turn your compound slide around or run the taper attachment?

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 2236
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: Woodinville Shops

Post by Glenn Brooks » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 pm

Yep, me to. Measured it twice to make sure!

turned the compound around, nearly parallel with the bed. It was only a bit shy of inch movement, so plenty of clearance... Haven’t figured out the taper attachment yet...

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

Harold_V
Posts: 18420
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Woodinville Shops

Post by Harold_V » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:00 am

rkcarguy wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:43 pm
Harold_V wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:27 pm
rkcarguy wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:52 am
How do you deal with the repeatability of the 3-jaw chuck when you remove and reinstall the wheel arbors?
You should investigate the use of soft jaws.

H
I agree. It's not really an option when using the lathe at work though.
Hmmm. You might press the issue. Who knows? They could benefit the shop in ways they may not realize.
I've worked in shops where there was no soft jaw usage. Several, in fact. Hard to understand once you've used them and realize they are truly the magic bullet to part holding.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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