12" working railroad

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V

Forum rules
Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
rkcarguy
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:10 am

The copper....whatever it's called, got taxed heavily under the Obama admin, and removed from many stains and treatments if I remember correctly. That's why it's come to be so expensive. I'm hoping that through a well draining clear gravel roadbed under the ties, that they will last awhile. No ties resting on dirt is going to be the key to long life.
Google Uncle Larry's backyard stain for another formula.

As far as turning the wheels is concerned, my other option would be:
I can bore and ream the axle holes, drill one blind "drive pin" hole, and then mount them on a hub in the lathe and turn the outer profile all at once.

The issue there is, I've got a 10* angle to turn on each side of the flange, and then the 3* angle on the wheel surface itself. If I was chucking up wheels on axles, I could perform each operation and then flip the wheel set around ensuring that they will all be the same size. Thankfully the chuck on the lathe was recently rebuilt and has less than .001" of run out.

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by Glenn Brooks » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:21 am

Personally I favor turning the wheels on centers -e.g. mounted on axles, as you want them to be concentric and square with the axle. Could be you can turn chuck up and the backsides, Then mount them and turn the front sides on centers. Some bit of piece work which ever way you go.
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:42 am

That's my thought too Glenn, I'd face and center drill the ends of the axles, press the wheels on and TIG tack the wheels to the axles, then put one end in the chuck and the other on a live center and perform each operation then flip the wheel set around and do the other wheel.

rkcarguy
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:53 am

We're close to having it up and running...
Laser.jpg

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by Glenn Brooks » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:31 pm

What ever home shop needs! Nothing to it...
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:07 pm

This would be where I work....home shop, I wish!
Coming from a machinist career, some of the feed rates on this thing are crazy, ~300 inches a minute on thinner materials!

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by Glenn Brooks » Wed Aug 15, 2018 4:01 pm

Yes indeed. Still mean to get up your way, but commitments keep stacking up. Maybe right after Labor Day... or possibly Sep 26, if you might be available.

BTW I tried turning to centers with one end in the chuck, the other in a live center. Found it was better, axle alignment ran truer, to turn down and hold a dead center in the three jaw and drive the axle wheel assembly with a dog. Lot quicker in the set up each time and I think I got better repeatability with all the wheel sets.

I still like to use the dead center. Give it a lite skim cut each time I mount it, to true it up.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:03 am

Glenn,

I would typically do things that way as well. Reason being, I've never ran a lathe with a three jaw that would hold anything very true. My prior workplace had a turret lathe with collets for everything and a bar feeder....gosh that thing was fun to run. I used to set up stops for everything and make brass NPT nuts in less than a minute. Several years ago a guy from our other "department" was turning a piece of long pipe when it got away from him, bent, and jammed the lathe up. It damaged the chuck, broke some gears, and sheared some keys. Our machinist/millwright basically rebuilt it, and sent the chuck off to be rebuilt and they did an excellent job. Our last check indicated .0008" run out on a piece of 1" shaft material that we chucked up. He retired shortly after, and we haven't hired another machinist so it has sat idle for the most part except for being used to polish an occasional piece of grab railing. I wish it wasn't such a big 3-phase beast I would consider getting it, as I think it will be headed else ware once we upgrade our big band saw. Because the chuck is so tight, I'm comfortable with holding the one end in the chuck. The outer edge of the opposite wheel should also act as a stop against the chuck face and help me set gage.

I'm in no hurry, it's all good whenever you want to come up. We're having trouble with the lasers chiller so we're not cutting metal yet. It would be a good time to get a truck design you like for your yard goat though so I can have it ready to go.

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by Glenn Brooks » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:39 am

Ryan, I’ll try to put some time into the truck design this next week. Easy enuf to do some email exchange. I made a commitment to host the Seattle Metalheads meet up in mid September and do a live steam demo with the Ottaway. So been preoccupied with fixing a few injector issues and making sure the Loco will run properly when giving rides. Then on to stage/fix/clean-up a couple of machine tools, so time is running short until Sep 15. But I’ll try to send something simple, that might work with the undercarriage.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:48 am

If you want 3" (1/4 scale), I can simply scale my current AAR truck drawings for my S12 up 50%, with the exception of the pillow block bolt pattern of course. Keep in mind you'll be looking at nearly 10" wheels if you run everything true to size/scale at 3".

Glenn Brooks
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:39 pm
Location: Woodinville, Washington

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by Glenn Brooks » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:38 pm

That might work. I figured on at least 10” wheels anyway, maybe bigger. Can you send a drawing or photo that shows the design?

One thing I’ve been thinking about is to make this an 0-4-0, with a connecting rod between the front and rear wheels. Similar to a 25 ton Whitcomb. This requires a new frame and no trucks, but it hinders future conversion to 15” gauge. So still debating.

I would like to review your drawing if you have something easy to send
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

rkcarguy
Posts: 869
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:33 am

Re: 12" working railroad

Post by rkcarguy » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:23 pm

Glenn,

The picture on page 14 of this thread is my final design for the AAR powered truck. Those axles are on 16" centers, increased to 3" scale it would be 24" centers, and I think that would work well for you as far as size and scale relative to your gage. It will actually look more realistic because the pillow block will stay the same size while the rest of the truck will be larger. I bet a scale bearing box would cover it up.

If you aren't going to be hydraulic powered, no reason for the motor bracket shown, just the truck sides. There is an inner and outer, the outer is meant to float up and down on springs independently, the inners can be welded together with pipe across the ends and a bolster of course.

Post Reply