The Home Machinist!

Glenn Brooks wrote: ↑Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:00 pm One more follow up re: liability insurance. I have just learned that my homeowner’s policy does in fact cover backyard railroading. I insure through USAA. I talked to them twice and confirmed USAA writes what are known as “All Risk” policies. Meaning they cover all risks associated with my homeowner’s use of you property - excluding commercial uses.

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While this may cover you on your own property, be careful if you run at a club or elsewhere off your property. Club policies may not cover you if they are written only to protect the club as an entity and the officers in the discharge of their duties.

Thanks Glenn, you found answers to questions I was afraid to ask!

(State Farm customer too...)

Ryan, yep, tough to do a seasonal setup, such as a Christmas train for the public. Unless one commits to a six week run and plans on doing some kind of additional commercial setup in the summer. Hard to justify $3k annual policy for only a week or two effort. But at least for backyard railroading, on the hobby side, there are alternatives. Much better than no options at all.

Glenn

Glenn Brooks wrote: ↑Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:00 pmI insure through USAA...USAA writes what are known as “All Risk” policies....Those folk who have current or prior military experience including National Guard or Reserve experience, and family members are eligible to join USAA.

Minor clarification: Aside from active duty personnel, USAA will only write insurance for veterans who have received an honorable discharge—such veterans' families are included. Being a veteran, I had investigated USAA's offerings in the past and ended up going through an independent agent who placed my business with a different insurer. The difference in cost between USAA and the insurer I have used for many years is negligible. So be sure to shop around.

Glenn Brooks wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:04 am Ryan, yep, tough to do a seasonal setup, such as a Christmas train for the public. Unless one commits to a six week run and plans on doing some kind of additional commercial setup in the summer. Hard to justify $3k annual policy for only a week or two effort. But at least for backyard railroading, on the hobby side, there are alternatives. Much better than no options at all.

Glenn

Yes, I had looked into doing a X-mas tree farm, with a train ride that would deliver the buyers to the tree field and take them and their tree back to the parking lot. Due to insurance and liability risk exposure, I had to Kybosh that.

Another update...

1). Mike@specialtyinsurance.com has replied that so far, all of his underwriters have declined to write non-commercial policies. None of them will deal with privately owned railroads. Mike reports he is very interested in developing this line of business, so will continue looking for an underwriter that deals in the home market.

2) Brian Merriam reports he to is actively looking for an underwriter. He has had some positive replies from his underwriters, but is still negotiating with them concerning terms and conditions. I think there are some issues with requiring umbrella coverage, e.g. you must also buy auto and homeowners as part of the package. Or some other condition that may not be appropriate for the private, backyard railroad. Brian continues to work on this also.

I guess I would encourage anyone who is interested in their efforts, to drop them an email and introduce yourself. Leave them your contact information so they have a sense their efforts are worthwhile, and know who is interested in purchasing insurance, should these efforts produce a useful level of coverage.

Glenn

neanderman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:44 am I don't know if it would cover a backyard railway, but I have what is referred to as an "Umbrella Liability" policy

I'm surprised this wasn't discussed more. On of the semi drivers I worked had a one million dollar personal Umbrella policy on himself just in case he was sued. Doesn't an umbrella policy cover everything as it says?
Has anyone checked with any tractor shows as to what their event insurance is? I know of several around the country that have trains.
Another problem is there is no good data on injuries by small and so slow speed trains, backyard railroads come and go but i wonder how many there are? I do know of two fatal accidents in the last ten years put they are rare.

Also I know some may consider this political , but I think we need a no fault injury law in this country. If you get injured or killed anywhere, by anything your insurance would pay up to 250, or maybe 500 thousand dollars. You could then sue, but only for the costs over that. If you failed to have insurance you could not sue for anything including pain and suffering . I would also put a cap on pain and suffering. Fyi, I mean in your car, on your atv, at work, crossing the street, on your neighbors sidewalk, I mean everywhere, no exceptions. I believe this would save tons of money because of the fact there would be no question about who was to pay the claim. Now this doesn't mean that business owners, homeowners,and others couldN't be sited by the authorities for negligence or unsafe conditions.
There would be a lot of unemployed attorneys !
Mike Nix

'Umbrella' certainly implies that it covers any "legal" actions; I think I was probably giving consideration to the fact that a backyard railway might entail entertaining large groups of people. But so long as you're not charging anything (which could make it a 'business...'), I suspect you'd be covered.

Also, my insurname company offers a supplementary liability insurance line, that sounds similar to the universal coverage mentioned above. I called them, and found the supplementary liability coverage covers any liability claim over the limits of the standard policy. Originally was developed to cover large auto accident liability, but now applies to any event. Might be worth looking into for those who can get backyard RR liability coverage.

Glenn

Talking to my insurance agent, he recommended going with a LLC and lease the land where the track is located to them and it would shield you from any liability that would happen.

Interesting concept. I’ve been away from liability law for a while. So don’t know what the current nuances are. However, claims of negligence are more than sufficient to overcome any exemptions from liability you might try to establish such as leasing from an LLc. And, injury claims are almost always accompanied by claims of negligence. Negligence implies wrong doing. And wrong doing is never a defense. So, really the leasing angle is very likely no shield at all…

Do some reading on "piercing the corporate veil". An LLC offers a layer of protection but has limitations.

https://www.wrlaw.com/2020/10/what-does ... rate-veil/