12" Guage Wheel Standard

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

Moderators: Glenn Brooks, Harold_V

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Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
rkcarguy
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by rkcarguy » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:27 am

^^^ It probably cuts really nice. They make 1/4" round carbide inserts and holders, I've been watching ebay for one to come up.
My thought was to rough the wheels within about .030" and then finish cut them with that in one pass. Carbide likes to be "loaded".

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dnevil
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by dnevil » Fri May 03, 2019 10:05 am

I've created a first draft for a 12" Gauge Wheel Standard. Take a look.

http://ibls.org/files/Standards/IBLS%20 ... 0Gauge.pdf

This is based on the WF&P standard as published in Live Steam and Outdoor Railroading, Sep/Oct 2015.

I welcome feedback.
Daris Nevil
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Glenn Brooks
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by Glenn Brooks » Fri May 03, 2019 10:31 am

Daris,

Thanks for doing this. Hopefully others will comment also.

One question: should FW and WD be the same dimension? If not, how are they different? Seems like they should both be the same??

Thanks again,

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

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dnevil
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by dnevil » Fri May 03, 2019 10:38 am

Good question. If FW and WD were the same, then the flange would ride on the frog. You want the wheel flange to be shorter than the depth to the bottom of the frog.
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Glenn Brooks
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by Glenn Brooks » Fri May 03, 2019 10:43 am

Daris, ok, understand now. One measurement is for the wheel, the other for the frog. Makes sense.

Thanks very much,

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

Mike Walsh
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by Mike Walsh » Fri May 03, 2019 11:24 am

Perhaps a credit to the WF&P would be ideal. After all, the members of WF&P came up with this standard a long time ago.

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dnevil
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by dnevil » Fri May 03, 2019 2:40 pm

That's a good idea. I'll modify and repost. Thanks!
Daris Nevil
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dnevil
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by dnevil » Fri May 03, 2019 2:46 pm

BTW, if you are viewing the PDF file in your web browser you will want to hold the shift key and click the reload icon to see the latest edit.
Daris Nevil
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rkcarguy
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by rkcarguy » Mon May 06, 2019 10:22 am

The wheel gage WG looks a little big. Other than the flange depth and frog depth being deeper than I had planned on I'm looking good, and I have been using a 10mm bolt for spacing my guard rails (just under .400"). I'm modeling in 2" scale though, shouldn't hurt to leave my flange depth shallower on my wheels as long as my track is all to spec?

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dnevil
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by dnevil » Fri May 10, 2019 12:33 pm

rkcarguy,

Good catch, WG is a typo, should be 11.843 inches. I've posted an updated document.

Daris
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rkcarguy
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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by rkcarguy » Thu May 16, 2019 11:26 am

I'm surprised the flange depth is as deep as it is, but I guess that is based on 3" scale as well. Is there any rule of thumb for scale vs. flange depth?
I'm modeling in 2" scale.

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Re: 12" Guage Wheel Standard

Post by Glenn Brooks » Thu May 16, 2019 1:24 pm

Ryan,

I’ve always heard that flange depth relates most closely to the profile of the rail and the frogs and points, etc the wheel must traverse, not the particular scale of the locomotive it fits on. ( In turn, size of rail, points, and frogs, determines carrying capacity and load stability - hence gauge, rail profile, and equivalent wheel design.) so your 2” scale locomotive would ideally be equipped with wheels that are most suitable for the 12” gauge track you wish to operate on. Prototype locomotive builders in the last century did this all the time, by progressively scaling engines and rolling stock to larger and larger sizes and carrying capacity, all the while maintaining standard gauge and wheel profiles.

Interestingly, In the earliest days of live steam development, Henry Greenly made a similar distinction between scale and gauge, and by reference - flange depth, saying that Scale determines the height, width of the locomotive, but gauge enabled the width of the selected fire box between the frame.

Glenn
Moderator - Grand Scale Forum

Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....

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