German Cagney

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

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Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
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LVRR2095
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German Cagney

Post by LVRR2095 »

Starting a new topic about the Cagney Brothers 18” gauge steam powered Pacific.
It was built for the Cagneys by the Company for Railway Industry in Breslau, Germany.
Originally operated by the Cagney family at the Jersey shore, it ended its days at am Amusement Park in New London, Connecticut.
It operated at a boiler pressure of 250 psi!
The last I knew (some years ago) it was still in existence in private ownership in Connecticut.

Keith Taylor
German built 18” gauge Cagney
German built 18” gauge Cagney
Cagney in New London storage
Cagney in New London storage
18 Gauge Pacific-2.jpg (31.15 KiB) Viewed 19460 times
Drivers
Drivers
18 Gauge Pacific-3.jpg (23.93 KiB) Viewed 19460 times
German Cagney in service at the New Jersey seashore
German Cagney in service at the New Jersey seashore
b3_1_b.jpg (52.97 KiB) Viewed 19460 times
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RussellCofIdaho
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Re: German Cagney

Post by RussellCofIdaho »

Just saw this, magnificent loco, I really love 18” gauge, everything from 1/4 scale with widened gauge to full size narrow gauge at everything from Woolrich to our R&R Railway on our former Ranch here in Idaho.

I made this document for my faux organization ‘The Sesquipedalian Railway Society” about 15 years ago.

Our email group has recently moved to groups.io so I guess I have to finish updating this...
EDC056C1-4F4F-4A37-B725-6772CB29BB8C.jpeg
Russell Courtenay
Idaho - USA
unknownidaho.wordpress.com
Big trains and big dreams...
NCBQGUY
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Re: German Cagney

Post by NCBQGUY »

This image appeared on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Miniature-Rail ... 3851340116
It looks like one of the German Cagney engines and even has more German appearance in the front cab windows.
It looks like it may have been converted to gas or diesel as the smokebox front looks to be louvered. The Detroit Zoo later had a Hiawatha-looking streamlined engine which may have been a rebuild.
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Miniature Railroad Train Ride In Zoological Park Detroit,MI Vtg 1939.jpg
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LVRR2095
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Re: German Cagney

Post by LVRR2095 »

detroitzoo.jpg
That is an 18” gauge Cagney gasoline powered locomotive. They were built in New York State and were always internal combustion powered.

Keith
John Landrum
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Re: German Cagney

Post by John Landrum »

Keith, I have a sister to this engine. Any idea how many were built? How many are still around? I'd love to add another to my stable of iron horses.
John Landrum
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Re: German Cagney

Post by LVRR2095 »

I don’t know how many survive.
I know that at least one is on display at the Bucktail Campground in Mansfield, Pennsylvania.

Keith Taylor
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Re: German Cagney

Post by LVRR2095 »

https://www.bucktailcamping.com/wp-cont ... lery-1.jpg

You can see part of the locomotive in this picture.

Keith
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Re: German Cagney

Post by Glenn Brooks »

If Cagney’s these would be their Class E, 22” gauge? Cagney didn’t make an 18” gauge, that I am aware of. They did make several 22” gauge locos. One is still operating at the Fleischer zoo in San Francisco. They only made a handful in this gauge. Maybe three or four, likely no more than 6.

Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

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Re: German Cagney

Post by LVRR2095 »

Glenn,
The 22” Gauge Pacific was built for the Cagney brothers by the Company for Railway Industry in Breslau, Germany. The Cagneys used it at their line at Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey. They the planned on building a line at Asbury Park, NJ that was never built. They sold the engine to an amusement park in New London, Connecticut. You need to remember that the Cagneys were promoters and they not only sold miniature railroad equipment, they also operated several lines in New Jersey. They also built more than 6 of the 18” gauge internal combustion powered locomotives as the Detroit Zoo alone had that many. I know of several lines that ran n New Jersey, and also at Rye Beach in New York State. Charles L. Cagney was also involved with the Industrial Railway and Locomotive Co. of New York City. I.R.& L. also sold the 18” gauge Pacifics.
Cagney / Industrial Railway and Locomotive Co.
Cagney / Industrial Railway and Locomotive Co.
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Re: German Cagney

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Keith, very interesting thread, and back ground info. One thing that would help round out this particular thread is a time line for when these 18” ga train sets were built and operated. Anything floating around concerning dates? (Edit: just noticed the copyright date on your drawing - of 1929.)

Part of the reason I ask is that we know the Cagney’s Built and sold 22” gauge locomotives from around 1904. And that their turn of the century brochure (only) lists their popular 15” ga Class D, and their 22” Class E locomotives. No mention of an 18” model at all, at the early date. At turn of the century, In 1904, they do mention manufacturing larger estate size and small industrial locomotives. But I’ve only found vague references to selling two or so industrial train sets outside of an amusement park ride or people mover setting. However, these could easily be part of the same 6 or 7 of their 22” gauge locomotives they produced in 1903/1904 - in the McGarglie Machine Company shops in NY. One of which won a first place locomotive award at the 1904 Louisiana exposition, and operated at the 1904 Louisiana Exposition, and which may be “Little Puffer” that still runs at the Fleishacker Zoo in San Francisco. So much remains to be discovered about the Cagney’s latter year time line and manufacturing history.

http://www.sfzoo.org/about/historic-sit ... uffer.html

Also why they never produced or sold anything during WW 1, for war time use, is actually quite a mystery to me. Trench gauge locos where in very high demand from 1915-1918, and the company was in existence through the late 1930’s, almost to the eve of WW2.

If anybody has any info on this latter period, please share.... it would be very interesting detail to know.

PS, I just found an online mention of Cagney producing some gasoline powered locomotives around 1924. So perhaps this is the tie in...

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/740/t/192240.aspx

Thanks,
Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
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Re: German Cagney

Post by LVRR2095 »

Glenn,
Many, many years ago when I was a teenager I was a volunteer at the NJ Museum of Transportation. At that time the Chief Mechanical Officer (i.e. steam locomotive expert) was Robert Parr. Bob Parr was the last living employee of the Cagney family. His explanation of the time line was in the 1920’s the demand for steam powered miniature locomotives dropped off. Some states required an engineer and fireman on each train! I’m not sure where the fireman was supposed to sit! Also many states now required the operator of amusement park locomotives to have a high pressure boiler operators license. The gasoline powered locomotives could be run by anybody. It is thought that the last Cagney steam locomotive was built around 1922. There were several in stock until the early 1930s. The last were sold to Topp Enerprises in Manlius, NY in 1930. Towards the end of the Cagney business the family mostly operated concessions at amusement parks and World’s Fairs. Bob Parr had some of the Cagney machine tools and did a business repairing Cagney and other brands of miniature steam locomotives.
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Re: German Cagney

Post by Glenn Brooks »

Thanks Keith, Fascinating you met him. Certainly fills in the timeline quite a bit. We have an earlier thread about an amusement park ride that was built by Parr around the time Cagney finally folded. I just read they may have hung on until the late 40’s. Wikipedia says 1948, apparently. Did Parr ever mention what they did during WW1? It certainly was a busy time for locomotive works in the US.

Glenn
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Motive power : 1902 A.S.Campbell 4-4-0 American - 12 5/8" gauge, 1955 Ottaway 4-4-0 American 12" gauge

Ahaha, Retirement: the good life - drifting endlessly on a Sea of projects....
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