12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Discuss park gauge trains and large scale miniature railways having track gauges from 8" to 24" gauge and designed at scales of 2" to the foot or greater - whether modeled for personal use, or purpose built for amusement park operation or private railroading.

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Topics may include: antique park gauge train restoration, preservation, and history; building new grand scale equipment from scratch; large scale miniature railway construction, maintenance, and safe operation; fallen flags; track, gauge, and equipment standards; grand scale vendor offerings; and, compiling an on-line motive power roster.
rkcarguy
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Re: 12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Post by rkcarguy » Wed May 26, 2021 4:04 pm

Yes that's the one. I think there is just the very end of one next to the trash gondola in one of your pictures.
You're going to have part of the side hinge open for people to get in?

0351
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Re: 12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Post by 0351 » Wed May 26, 2021 5:12 pm

Not 100% sure yet. The trash go is mainly gonna be a utility/work car. With the option to ride.
The highsides will have a removable bench length ways down the center of the car. Mesa Grande RR has highsides similar set up.
As for the sides that open, I’ll wait and see as the build progress.
I do like how the lager 15” gauge gons have opened doors in one side.
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0351
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Re: 12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Post by 0351 » Wed May 26, 2021 5:31 pm

I’m working with a couple of 2.5” enthusiasts in scaling up 3D printed details for the 50tonner. In the process are the front a rear headlights, GE style door handles, a couple of the Pyle light sockets and covers.
The first set of 3D printed GE door handles proved weak and easily broken. Working on getting them printed in metal this time.
Looking forward to get the headlights in hand, tired of look at the paper mock-up on the longhood. LOL! Although it brings life to the plane nose!
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rkcarguy
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Re: 12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Post by rkcarguy » Thu May 27, 2021 4:43 pm

That's cool you're able to source the 3D printed pieces, that headlight bezel would have to be a CNC milled billet part otherwise.

0351
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Re: 12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Post by 0351 » Thu May 27, 2021 7:11 pm

3D printing does open up a lot of possibilities for loco/car details . With the option to print some parts in plastic, nylon, metal, bronze.
I would have preferred to have a metal light housing, even attempted to fab one. Wasn’t happy the results.
Fortunately I ran across someone who was building a 2.5” GE U6B, which used the same style GE headlights. He designed and printed his working headlights, and was willing to slightly modify his design and scale them up to accommodate my build.
Colossians 1-14
“ In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:”

0351
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Re: 12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Post by 0351 » Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:23 pm

Looking for advice on the sprocket ratios for gearing the 50tonner.

Power is supplied by a Kubota Z430, 2-cyl Diesel, liquid cooled engine. Rated at 12HP, and 3200rpm.

Plan to couple the engine with an Eaton model 11 HST. The HST will then be coupled via Love-Joy to to a short inline shaft (to prevent an overhang load on the HST) with a sprocket#1, with a roller chain dropped through the deck to sprocket #2 below. Sprocket #2, and shaft will be connected to each truck via a short PTO shafts. PTO shafts will connect to each of the 4 axles via
tolo-matic right angle gearboxes, with a 1:1 ratio, loco wheels are 8.25” diameter.
The locomotive in the picture below is how I’m wanting to set mine loco.

Any ideas on what the #1 and #2 sprocket ratios should be?
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0351
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Re: 12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Post by 0351 » Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:45 pm

I had previously came up with a 4:1 ratio.
James Pekarek provided me the following info:
Specs online show that the Model 11 has an output speed of 1950 RPM with an input speed of 3600. Using that ratio, the output shaft will turn a maximum of 1733 RPM. Assuming a max desired speed of the locomotive at 10 MPH (which is fast), the driveshaft will need to turn at 407 RPM. 1733/407 = 4.25:1 ratio. Any combination of sprockets that will get you that ratio will yield 10 MPH at full throttle, speed lever all the way forward. Small sprocket goes on the output shaft of the Eaton, big sprocket goes on the driveshaft.
Colossians 1-14
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rkcarguy
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Re: 12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Post by rkcarguy » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:20 pm

Something to consider: Work your engines idle speed into the math and make sure that you will be happy with the performance with your overall gear ratio (locomotive speed at idle). I reduced my top speed to about 6.5 mph to increase torque and give me a slow enough speed at idle for easier take-off from a stop, coupling cars, etc. Originally I had planned on around 9mph and concluded it would be like starting out in 2nd gear in a manual transmission vehicle.
Lastly, it appears the Eaton Model 11 is only rated for about 30ft/lbs of torque continuous output, is that correct? Granted you'll see about 4+ times that at the axles through your sprocket drive reduction, but I'm concerned it may be too light duty for your build.

I'm using 2 of these in my build:
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulic ... 2235-D.axd
They are rated for 118ft/lb of torque continuous, further multiplied by the 12/33 sprocket drive on each truck, developing potential for about 640ft/lb of torque between the pair (which would stall my engine-or bump the pressure bypass in my hydraulic control valve out at ~1500 PSI.)

0351
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Re: 12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Post by 0351 » Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:07 pm

Yes 30ftlb. You may be right about the m11. It has been used in these small tractors with good success though gearing. Quite a few 7.5” locos use the smaller model 6/7 hst. The only complaint I’ve seen is a problem with fluids overheating. I had plans to use a 3gal reservoir along with a thermal cooler to keep heat to a minimum.
2nd picture is a model7.
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Colossians 1-14
“ In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:”

rkcarguy
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Re: 12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Post by rkcarguy » Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:04 pm

I wonder if the M11 has a high pressure bypass? I.E, if it's overloaded it allows fluid to slip by so it doesn't break something?
That would result in the excessive heating, if that was the case. Cooling wouldn't fix it, in theory, but if it's only bypassing during acceleration from a stop when heavily loaded and it keeps the fluid in its operating temperature range, it wouldn't hurt anything I guess.

0351
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Re: 12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Post by 0351 » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:08 am

Sorry, I meant problems with the model 6/7 overheating. Haven’t read anything about the 11s having problems. The Eaton 11 manual has the shows the option of using a reservoir and cooler for some applications. I realize that by using right angle gear box’s I’ll be loosing some power.
Hydro motors in the truck aren’t out of the question. I would need to come up with a way to connect a pump to the HST the route hoses to the motors? My commercial zero-turn diesel mower uses a 28hp cat that powers a hst and hydro motors at the wheels.
Colossians 1-14
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ERIE S-1 BERKSHIRES
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Re: 12” gauge DRGW Inspired RR

Post by ERIE S-1 BERKSHIRES » Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:04 pm

I built a Alco FA-2 with a Kohler 8 HP coupled to a Eaton 11 hydrostatic pump with a chair Lynn 5.9 cubic inch motor on each truck in series, 3 gallon oil tank for cooling! The Eaton 11 pump has acceleration valves for forward and reverse for smooth starting and stopping, never had a problem heating up the oil pulling a heavy load. Also one of my on hold projects is a 2 1/2 Little Giant X1 also same hydraulic drive as the Alco FA-2 I highly recommend the 11 hydrostatic pump!

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